U.S. Politics

[Keyblade]

10 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

I genuinely can't believe the cognitive dissonance with regards to the NFL kneelers and the first amendment. It's staggering.

 

The 1st amendment literally states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

And you've got the President and millions of "patriots" campaigning for these guys to be fired because they've exercised their first amendment rights. The same Americans that in any other context would shoot you dead if you questioned their right to free speech.

Free speech only matters to them when it's them or people like them saying some bigoted shit. In every other situation they really couldn't care less about it. 

There are so many levels of irony to this whole situation. It really shows the depths of the projection of right wingers.

They're the ones who are supposedly staunch defenders of free speech. They're the ones who are supposedly against PC culture and "special snowflakes" that get offended at every little thing. They're the biggest Patriots, while simultaneously flying and defending the Confederate flag and its bearers, not to mention literal **** Nazis. They chastise black people for riots and protests that get out of hand, but also chastise them for protesting peacefully and silently. 

They can't even contain their racism anymore. They're calling them dancing monkeys for our entertainment with some of them being more subtle and using the age old dog whistle "thugs" to describe these heinous kneeling criminals. I seriously despair for the state of political discourse out there. It's truly **** toxic.

[LondonLax]

Free speech is about protection from the Government coming after you for saying the wrong thing. It doesn't give you protection from being fired from your job if you say or do something that pisses off your employer or contradicts their values.  

I presume I don't need to add that I support the guys kneeling? I just want to be consistent about 'free speech' because racists make the same arguments about their rights to 'free speech' being violated when one of them inevitably gets fired for being racist. 

[Keyblade]

Just now, LondonLax said:

Free speech is about protection from the Government coming after you for saying the wrong thing. It doesn't give you protection from being fired from your job if you say or do something that pisses off your employer or contradicts their values.  

I presume I don't need to add that I support the guys kneeling? I just want to be consistent about 'free speech' because racists make the same arguments about their rights to 'free speech' being violated when one of them inevitably gets fired for being racist. 

Agreed but I mean, the president did publicly pressure the NFL to fire them so there's that.

It's not that the law is being violated per se, but that they're against the principal they supposedly support. Guaranteed they don't even know about this caveat of the 1st amendment anyway.

[LondonLax]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Agreed but I mean, the president did publicly pressure the NFL to fire them so there's that.

It's not that the law is being violated per se, but that they're against the principal they supposedly support. Guaranteed they don't even know about this caveat of the 1st amendment anyway.

Oh yeah, definite hypocrisy especially about the 'easily offended snowflake' thing as well.  

[ThunderPower_14]

Yeah I acknowledge no active action is being taken by the government, but the hypocrisy is more to the point. The far right in the US will drag out the first amendment as soon as anyone questions anything they say even in the most minor of ways, and yet here they are demanding action be taken against people for exercising their constitutional right to a peaceful protest.

 

The President himself no less is demanding the NFL take action.

 

I just feel it treads massively on the toes of the first amendment which these people, in only slightly different circumstances, would say is above reproach.

Edited September 26, 2017 by ThunderPower_14

[il_serpente]

"Exercising your free speech rights is disrespectful to those who fought to preserve those rights for you."  In other words, be thankful that you have those rights, but by God, don't think about using them.

I  get really annoyed about the right's insistence on labeling any criticism of the U.S. or the flag from within as an affront to the brave men and women who put their lives on the line so that we can enjoy our liberty which, to hear them tell it, doesn't exist in any other country in the world.  Never mind that it's been a couple of hundred years since any war was fought or force was stood up to actually prevent being conquered and having our constitutional rights taken away.  The cold war military force was all about averting total annihilation and, although Japan attacked in WWII the stakes were territory and and influence, not the sovereignty of the nation (side note that Hawaii was not a state at the time).  The better part of military activity otherwise has been to press, enforce or protect interest in natural resources, either by direct intervention or by propping up brutal thugs who favored US economic and/or strategic interests (Central America in the 19th and 20th Centuries, anyone?)

While I'm grateful that there are people willing to put their lives in the hands of cynical politicians in the  unlikely event that they might actually need to be used to protect me, I don't owe them blind allegiance to their whitewashed view of our nation's unquestionable and total righteousness just because they're willing to die for that illusion.

[chrisp65]

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

[villaglint]

So many similarities between Trump and Mourinho in the way they play their audience.

Jose team loses and he says something stupid about the ref and everyone gets in a tiz for a few days. 

Trump wants to get healthcare bill passed so he starts diverting people from focusing on the topic but tweeting about NFL players and getting everyone worked up about an issue he doesn't give a crap about but plays to his base. 

He's literally using his phone to do this. 

[bickster]

14 hours ago, villaglint said:

So many similarities between Trump and Mourinho in the way they play their audience.

Jose team loses and he says something stupid about the ref and everyone gets in a tiz for a few days. 

Trump wants to get healthcare bill passed so he starts diverting people from focusing on the topic but tweeting about NFL players and getting everyone worked up about an issue he doesn't give a crap about but plays to his base. 

He's literally using his phone to do this. 

Nah, the bill has already failed, McCain, Rand and a female whose name I forget are already out.

This was meant to ready to sign at the inauguration. 

In 8 months they have literally achieved nothing.

Trumps tweets may be distracting but they are a distraction from abject failure

[ThunderPower_14]

On 26/09/2017 at 11:53, LondonLax said:

Free speech is about protection from the Government coming after you for saying the wrong thing. It doesn't give you protection from being fired from your job if you say or do something that pisses off your employer or contradicts their values. 

This line is getting blurrier and blurrier with Trump now demanding that a rule be introduced banning kneeling from occuring.

 

The NFL have been entirely supportive of the players, and Trump's rhetoric has only worked to unite the NFL, not even really for the BLM cause, but in support of tbeir first amendment rights.

[maqroll]

We are witnessing arguably the biggest con job in American history. I'd like to know just how fraudulent his presidency is, and precisely how Russia may have colluded with him or worked toward getting him elected. The haphazard way the republicans have bungled both ACA replacement bills suggests to me that they're just desperately trying to rush things because they know Mueller is about to handcuff the whole program.

[il_serpente]

I actually think it would help the Republicans if Mueller brings down Trump.  They would then have Pence, who is more or less one of them and would actually work with them to create an ACA repeal that might have a chance of slipping through unnoticed, instead of a childish narcissist who draws attention to the con job they're trying to pull and resorts to petty name-calling when they don't give him a win to brag about.

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, bickster said:

Nah, the bill has already failed, McCain, Rand and a female whose name I forget are already out.

This was meant to ready to sign at the inauguration. 

In 8 months they have literally achieved nothing.

Trumps tweets may be distracting but they are a distraction from abject failure

Good post and agreed, though would add the amendment: '. . . failed (for this calendar year, though they'll try again next year when they can restart the budget reconciliation process)'

[Straggler]

Hi guys, I'm back at the NFL in London this Sunday (Saints v Dolphins) and I have a question for you all. 

Should I as a fan in the crowd stay seated for the US anthem in support of the players who I imagine will be taking a knee themselves?

I've looked and I've not seen anything in the media about fan participation other than Pats fans booing the players who protested and a bunch of people who have burned team merchandise on social media in a counter protest.  It seems to me a logical next step will be for fans to stand in solidarity with their teams and present a unified front.

 

[Seat68]

My daughters boyfriend was at the last game and asked him what did the crowd do, he said nothing, just carried on as normal.

[Straggler]

Yeah, I was one of the people who carried on as normal, but I was thinking about what I should do.  I'm not one to be impulsive particularly so I didn't take a seat at the time, but now I have time to think about it before the next game.  I'm not too bothered if I am the only person who is thinking about participating as a fan, but I'll be surprised if I'm the only one considering what to do.

[Xann]

 

[villaglint]

9 hours ago, bickster said:

Nah, the bill has already failed, McCain, Rand and a female whose name I forget are already out.

This was meant to ready to sign at the inauguration. 

In 8 months they have literally achieved nothing.

Trumps tweets may be distracting but they are a distraction from abject failure

Fair point and you maybe right was reading a Nate Silver piece the other day saying a better way to understand Trump is someone who is easily provoked rather than some strategic genius. 

280 characters will be interesting! 

[lapal_fan]

I think I've found the word for Trump;

Irresponsible. 

Lots more obviously  but I think that word encapsulates everything about his presidency to this point.  The amount of times he has put his own face in custard is absurd.  His tweeting from a man in his position is literally laughable, offensive and divisive - he's meant to be the man to make America unified, not to tear it in two.  Obama was much more careful with his words, and at least with Obama, you understood that whilst you may not agree with him, at least it was a thought based on some form of evidence and knowledge.  

I still think he'll end up dead at some point (in the near future).