Mic09 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 4 hours ago, villa4europe said: the whole sunday game performance dip after a EL game is complete and utter bollocks, its a myth the media concocted and players play up to, moutinho for example has 116 caps for Portugal and 124 appearances in European competition but playing 3 games in 8 days with 2 flights in between causes his performance to drop? not having it CL doesn't do it, international tournaments don't do it but Thursday night games are different? nope, its a get out of jail card It's a get out of jail card to the extent. We aren't talking about Man City dipping in form because they played Juventus on a Tuesday, HOWEVER you cannot deny that a larger amount of games will cause greater fatigue and will likely result in more injuries. All these small things might add up to a few dropped points a season, and that could be the difference between 8th and 12th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 10 hours ago, villa4europe said: the whole sunday game performance dip after a EL game is complete and utter bollocks, its a myth the media concocted and players play up to, moutinho for example has 116 caps for Portugal and 124 appearances in European competition but playing 3 games in 8 days with 2 flights in between causes his performance to drop? not having it CL doesn't do it, international tournaments don't do it but Thursday night games are different? nope, its a get out of jail card Had a look back to last season and how Chelsea and Arsenal did after europa games: Arsenal 4-2 Vorskla Arsenal 2-0 Everton Qarabag 0-3 Arsenal Fulham 1-5 Arsenal Sporting 0-1 Arsenal Palace 2-2 Arsenal Arsenal 0-0 Sporting Arsenal 1-1 Wolves Vorskla 0-3 Arsenal Arsenal 4-2 Spurs Arsenal 1-0 Qararbag Southampton 3-2 Arsenal Arsenal 3-0 Bate Arsenal 2-0 Southampton Arsenal 2-0 Napoli Watford 0-1 Arsenal Napoli 0-1 Arsenal Arsenal 2-3 Palace Arsenal 3-1 Valencia Arsenal 1-1 Brighton Quite a few dropped points there. Arsenal had a pretty easy group and were putting out reserve teams so maybe not a great guide up to xmas. That Napoli game actually cost them Ramsey for the run in and meant they put out a second string team for Palace at home, losing at home pretty much cost them top 4. Not going to post all Chelsea results but they also struggled to win Sunday games after europa, still somehow scraped 3rd and won the competition. All I'd say is if Chelsea and Arsenal with their 20 odd years of european experience still struggle to win games after playing europa on Thursday Wolves with their 15 senior players sure as hell will. Joao Moutinho is now 33 years old so he'll need a breather on occasions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 im not suggesting its a wolves excuse, its an English excuse don't compare them to arsenal and Chelsea, compare arsenal and Chelsea to the English CL teams or compare them to Frankfurt and the other semi final team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, villa4europe said: im not suggesting its a wolves excuse, its an English excuse don't compare them to arsenal and Chelsea, compare arsenal and Chelsea to the English CL teams or compare them to Frankfurt and the other semi final team Frankfurt won 5 out of 13 and lost again at the weekend which meant they finished 7th when they were chasing 4th. Valencia was a Champions League dropout so cant really judge entire season for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Don't think Wolves are anything special. They are very good at counter attacking. Plays and defend deep. I think clubs are starting to figure them out. Wolves are very limited when not allowed to counter. I mean they lost twice to Huddersfield for god sake and we beat them 4-1 under Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Wolves start to the season hasn't really been that bad, in fact it's been pretty decent, drawing away to Leicester and at United, whilst in the midst of Europa league campaign with all the travelling that that entails are pretty good results, as was beating Torino away from home, and they won't be the first team that drops points to Burnley who are an underrated team. They're actually on more points now, than they were at this stage last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted August 27, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 26/08/2019 at 10:01, kurtsimonw said: They really don't look very good. Beat a Torino side that were still in preseason, haven't won a league game. Squad is going to be far too small this season. You're right, we're not at our best yet, and were below par against Burnley, yet we've won five from five European games and are undefeated in the league. I'll take that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted August 27, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 26/08/2019 at 12:00, villa4europe said: the whole sunday game performance dip after a EL game is complete and utter bollocks, its a myth the media concocted and players play up to, moutinho for example has 116 caps for Portugal and 124 appearances in European competition but playing 3 games in 8 days with 2 flights in between causes his performance to drop? not having it CL doesn't do it, international tournaments don't do it but Thursday night games are different? nope, its a get out of jail card I don't think the stats agree with you, teams who enter the Europa League in a fashion similar to Wolves last season tend to drop points the following season, we've already dropped three from the equivalent fixtures last season. On top of that, Wolves only really had one day to prepare for Burnley, where as they had a week, plus we played on the Monday the week before, not at the weekend. It's absolutely going to have an effect. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/aug/12/premier-league-wolves-europa-league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 why doesn't the champions league have the same effect then? thats what im on about too, one of the leading papers in the country stating in mid august before a balls been kicked that there is a danger they wont perform as well this season because the EL is a "burden" its a mental belief that the media spout, that the fans buy in to it and it will eventually feed back to the players who dip in performance and get away with it I think its a self perpetuating myth and a really interesting look in to the mental fragility of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted August 27, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: why doesn't the champions league have the same effect then? thats what im on about too, one of the leading papers in the country stating in mid august before a balls been kicked that there is a danger they wont perform as well this season because the EL is a "burden" its a mental belief that the media spout, that the fans buy in to it and it will eventually feed back to the players who dip in performance and get away with it I think its a self perpetuating myth and a really interesting look in to the mental fragility of football Well, I'd say it has an effect, but less of one as the teams in the Champions League are better, and with bigger and better squads than those down the table. The gap between 4th and 7th is massive. On top of this, many of our most important players didn't have much of a break at all this summer. Four of our Portugese lot won the Nations League, and Raul won the Gold cup before we headed to China. I'm expecting our first loss of the season away at Everton on Sunday having got through against Torino. We won that game last season 3-1 so if I'm right that means we'll have dropped six points from the same fixtures as last season in just four games, which is significant. It will still have been a decent start to the season. I expect us to field weak sides in the League Cup. Edited August 27, 2019 by Andy81 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 all of that makes sense but at the same time you are excusing them from performing, you are lowering expectations and pressure on the team and that is why I think the performance dip following the EL is more pronounced, its forecasted and then played up to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Leicester A - silly hand ball rules cost them a win. Tough away game. Man Utd H - they looked good I thought could have won. Burnley H - very poor. Scraped a point and were lucky to be within a goal by the 90th min. I think they'll be fine. Top 10. Squad size is an issue though I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted August 27, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, villa4europe said: all of that makes sense but at the same time you are excusing them from performing, you are lowering expectations and pressure on the team and that is why I think the performance dip following the EL is more pronounced, its forecasted and then played up to You could be right but that’s hard to prove. History says it makes a difference so you should expect a dip in the league at some point. Plenty of people were frustrated on Sunday for sure. I get the feeling the club’s priority is Europe too, and for the first time Nuno is having to be more forward thinking in his team selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Andy81 said: You could be right but that’s hard to prove. History says it makes a difference so you should expect a dip in the league at some point. Plenty of people were frustrated on Sunday for sure. I get the feeling the club’s priority is Europe too, and for the first time Nuno is having to be more forward thinking in his team selections. The big thing for Wolves is that Nuno loves to keep the same XI and he is now being force to change it for games. He loves to prepare in detailed fashion and he isn't getting the time he wants to prepare for PL games. Wolves realistically could get CL football through the Europa league and it would be wortwhile to sacrifice a few places in the league to do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted August 27, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, omariqy said: The big thing for Wolves is that Nuno loves to keep the same XI and he is now being force to change it for games. He loves to prepare in detailed fashion and he isn't getting the time he wants to prepare for PL games. Wolves realistically could get CL football through the Europa league and it would be wortwhile to sacrifice a few places in the league to do that. This is how I read it too. By the way I was travelling on Friday so I didn't get to watch it, but congratulations on your win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) Haven't read any of it, but on their forum there's a thread on Grealish started just after the game yesterday that's already five pages long, 174 replies. Five pages on just one of our players in less than 24 hours, also worth bearing in mind that on that forum each page has forty posts, twice as many as on here, so if it was a thread on here it would be at least nine pages long. Edited September 1, 2019 by useless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 They're looking like shit this season, could be in for a rude awakening with European commitments, their squad is too thin and some of their key midfield players aren't in form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, useless said: Haven't read any of it, but on their forum there's a thread on Grealish started just after the game yesterday that's already five pages long, 174 replies. Five pages on just one of our players in less than 24 hours, also worth bearing in mind that on that forum each page has forty posts, twice as many as on here, so if it was a thread on here it would be at least nine pages long. They probably use the same cute nicknames for him as the other West Midlands clubs too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: They're looking like shit this season, could be in for a rude awakening with European commitments, their squad is too thin and some of their key midfield players aren't in form. They should really be on 1 point as well with flukey penalties going their way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy81 Posted September 1, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: They're looking like shit this season, could be in for a rude awakening with European commitments, their squad is too thin and some of their key midfield players aren't in form. One loss in ten this season. We won’t be knocking on the door of the top six or anything, but European football sees to be our priority. We looked awful today, but I expected this, as I said earlier in this thread. I’m very happy with the start of our season. As an aside, Villa fans all over Wolves twitter today from the off. It’s not a one way thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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