Rugeley Villa Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 As Chris has pointed out, there really is no proof either way whether God is real or not. Both sides cannot prove the other wrong. It’s win win for us all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: As Chris has pointed out, there really is no proof either way whether God is real or not. Both sides cannot prove the other wrong. It’s win win for us all . Prove the Spaghetti Monster is not real. Prove that Fairies are not real. I could go on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, villakram said: Prove the Spaghetti Monster is not real. Prove that Fairies are not real. I could go on. Now you’re just being silly. We all know Fairies are not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 28, 2019 Administrator Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Can you maybe not see that some people have a belief in atheism that they want to spread and share? You can't have a belief in atheism. That would be a belief in lacking a belief in god(s). We are therefore only arguing about definitions which is futile. The etymology is from the Greek "a theos", literally "without god". Next someone will get the definition of agnostic wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted March 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2019 Whenever this thread is bumped for whatever reason I always think of that Quentin Crisp quote - “When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, 'Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?”. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 A strangely humourless selectively literal thread. Pedantic about fence sitting, fine with the description of someone as scum. We can see it was a joke? I'm not claiming it was a good one, just surprised that people could read down my rambling contributions and take 'fence sitting scum' as a literal appraisal of agnosticism. Which kind of brings us full circle back to puritanical atheism. I think it works rather well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, limpid said: You can't have a belief in atheism. That would be a belief in lacking a belief in god(s). What would you call a strong (hard, positive) atheist that believes god(s) do no exist? So your statement is wrong on the face of it. But I take your point most atheists are like of a weak (soft, negative, agnostic) flavour. You lack a belief in Roman gods? I positively disbelieve in those (and a bunch of others). You have picked up on a relatively modern definition of atheism … and frankly it does not matter. So long as we understand what we understand what the person means when they use the word. This is assuming you are not an oberleutnant in the word stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted March 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Now you’re just being silly. We all know Fairies are not real. Of course Fairies are real. Yeah fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me. Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 8 hours ago, chrisp65 said: A strangely humourless selectively literal thread. Pedantic about fence sitting, fine with the description of someone as scum. We can see it was a joke? I'm not claiming it was a good one, just surprised that people could read down my rambling contributions and take 'fence sitting scum' as a literal appraisal of agnosticism. Which kind of brings us full circle back to puritanical atheism. I think it works rather well. Maybe communism is a form of puritanical atheism? Anyway there appears to be quite a few athiests on this thread that seem quite passionate about their beliefs. Or lack of beliefs should I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) I find it all rather hopeless at the moment. Intolerant people will always exist no matter how much education and exposure you offer and for that reason we are potentially doomed as a society. You could ostracise them but then you are just as intolerant as they are. Education and exposure is key but how to show stubborn people that different doesn’t mean dangerous? They are angrily defiant to the point of starting a culture war and they’ll be damned if they are going to change their mind. It’s a vicious circle and if there was an answer we would have it by now. People/groups encompassing all the ‘ism’s’ under the sun living, working, shagging and fighting together in close quarters. There’s too many of us and too many cultures of every single type isolating themselves as pockets within other cultures and that’s where the hate and distrust comes from on all sides imo. The issue is that currently there are too many people unwilling to come together. They want to stay in the world they know and are used to and damn everyone else. We are the architects of our own demise. When I was younger I used to think that as the generations went on that hatred will be bred out as kids learn from their parents mistakes but Ive realised that it really is a case of children picking up their parents habits and views and extending the cycle of hatred and disdain. How do you fight against that? At one point I thought I was a Secular Agnostic Atheist but then I realised it’s all complete bollocks and I’m just pigeon holing myself into yet another ism and that that risks me being on a side against other ism’s. I don’t want that. I’m not sure we will ever get to an idealistic point of a harmonious society, all I can do as an individual is be as nice to everyone as I can possibly be. I’m sure I’ll mess up at some point but then I’ll try and be even nicer the next time. If as many people stick to that mantra we may just survive. I may have just posted complete gobshite but it’s been therapeutic to write it out so there’s that going for it. Edited March 29, 2019 by Ingram85 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 29, 2019 Administrator Share Posted March 29, 2019 8 hours ago, fruitvilla said: What would you call a strong (hard, positive) atheist that believes god(s) do no exist? Someone who does not believe in god(s) is an atheist by definition. Do you mean someone that makes the claim that there is no god? I also call them atheist, but they might also be antutheist or nihilist or gnostic atheist or a bunch of other descriptive words depending on the detail of what they actually believe. The noun isn't as important as what someone believes, and it wasn't me that brought it up (this time). 9 hours ago, fruitvilla said: So your statement is wrong on the face of it. But I take your point most atheists are like of a weak (soft, negative, agnostic) flavour. You lack a belief in Roman gods? I positively disbelieve in those (and a bunch of others). Which statement is wrong? Do you mean the one you quoted? Please say how it is wrong, otherwise your dismissal is just a blind assertion. It appears that you don't know what agnostic means. (a)gnosticism is the range of certainty of knowledge, not belief. It is unrelated to (a)theism. I don't believe in god(s) without a reasonable evidence that it is true. I don't claim knowledge of the existence of god(s). I am both atheist and agnostic. 9 hours ago, fruitvilla said: You have picked up on a relatively modern definition of atheism … and frankly it does not matter. So long as we understand what we understand what the person means when they use the word. This is assuming you are not an oberleutnant in the word stasi. A modern definition from the ancient Greeks whose word it is. What's your source for your claim that it's modern? And I agree, which is why I was asking the questions. The OP used the word atheist and I'm quibbling with his choice of adjective. Nice ad hominem at the end. That always means you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Now you’re just being silly. We all know Fairies are not real. there really is no proof either way whether fairies are real or not. Both sides cannot prove the other wrong. It’s win win for us all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: there really is no proof either way whether fairies are real or not. Both sides cannot prove the other wrong. It’s win win for us all . That’s the spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: That’s the spirit. Spirits don't exist either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 29, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 29, 2019 Quote Next week, the tiny sultanate of Brunei become the first country in Southeast Asia to make homosexuality a crime punishable by death. The change is part of a nationwide implementation of the Sharia law that was first announced in 2014. At the time, Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah said: “The decision to implement the (penal code) is not for fun but is to obey Allah’s command as written in the Quran.” Link 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 29, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 29, 2019 14 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I'm not puritanical about it. Zealot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 29, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 29, 2019 13 hours ago, villakram said: Agnosticism is where it is at! I don't know about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Link **** hell. Yet the world will still let it happen and the wheels will keep turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 29, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Ingram85 said: it’s all complete bollocks and I’m just pigeon holding myself into get another ism Good post, but this bit is a definite thing these days, isn't it? people labelling themselves or others - it's all tiny sects and pigeon-holing and tribal. It's very counter-productive and intolerant and squashes wider discussion and understanding. I'm here in my trench.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: **** hell. Yet the world will still let it happen and the wheels will keep turning. Well George Clooney has come out and urged people not to stay in the Sultan's Beverly Hill's Hotel or any of the other 8 luxury hotels that he owns. So that'll show him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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