snowychap Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: The timing just seems really irresponsible under the circumstances. Really irresponsible? Blimey, I wonder how you'll be phrasing it when/if (a section of) NI politicians properly push for a fresh look at Irish reunification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted March 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2017 Just now, tonyh29 said: thing is had they won first time around , say 52% to 48% ..would they be giving the 48% a second referendum or would they have said Jockxit means Jockxit and that's your lot ? If they had voted in favour of independence, when one of the big arguments against independence was their future in the EU, I can't see how the Brexit result would necessarily undermine that result, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. If they'd won the last independence referendum based on them wanting to leave the EU, and rUK wanting to remain, then we'd voted for Brexit, I rather suspect that there would be an appetite for a re-run of the independence referendum. I do broadly agree with your point that there are a number of situations in which those in power seem to enjoy just asking the same question until they get the answer they like, but in this case I think the change of circumstances in the last year justify another vote. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: The timing just seems really irresponsible under the circumstances. Surely they have a duty having voted to stay in the UK to stick it out at least until Brexit has been completed. Irresponsible to whom? Their whole point is that they want no part of the dimwittedness that is happening in Westminster. If British political direction is going to be shaped by a coalition of the racist, the gullible and the ignorant then why would they feel any loyalty towards hanging around for that? Best of luck to the wee radges. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The thing I'm most frustrated about is how far away the vote is. Another 2 years of this. I wish that I could just hibernate for 5, ok, 10...Maybe 20 years until all of this Brexit stuff has wrapped up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 It's the same with the EU referendum, people may have voted based on x or y that turned out to be utter horseshite, but unfortunately it was a binary question on the ballot paper. I'm a remainer but accept the result, it's tough tits on my part. Again how can Sturgeon even guarantee anything for the Scotch. I would have more sympathy with an Irish referendum due to the border issue and the fact they haven't had a vote just two years ago to stay in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Should I and the rest of us tht didn't vote out? No you shouldn’t. Your reasons for voting remain, the belief that it was the best thing for the country shouldn’t change just because others felt differently. Your reasons and beliefs are just as valid now as they were before the vote unless something has convinced you that you were wrong of course. If not then feel free to express your opinion as to why we should remain and challenge those with an opposing opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I don't understand why people are annoyed about it. They had a vote based on a specific set of circumstances. These circumstances have been changed against their will and they're in danger of having these circumstances, that they never wanted, forced onto them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) I know manifesto pledges and promises don't mean shit but this is the wording in the SNP's 2016 manifesto (p.25): Quote We will achieve independence only when a majority of our fellow citizens are persuaded that it offers the best future for our country. Our success will depend on the strength of our arguments and the clarity of our vision. We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will. Edited March 13, 2017 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Sturgeon won't stop until they are independent, so just get it over with. Let them go it alone and be done with it. At least that way she'll stop having influence in Westminster and we can all get on with sorting our own shit out without her blabbing every 5 minutes about Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted March 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2017 Imagine that, the First Minister of Scotland going on about Scotland a lot, what a word removed. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I just hate the vile woman. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 She didn't like the result at Twickenham so she wants the game replayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Sod Scotland, the interesting one is Catalunya. if their referendum goes ahead it gives Spain a hell of a headache, especially as they might run it without a blessing from Madrid. And for the EU, well it's far more pressing than Scotland and the fall out will no doubt create some new ground for Scotland to either leap onto or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Just keep having the same referendum until you get the result you want. Democracy at it's best. Edited March 13, 2017 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted March 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I don't understand why people are annoyed about it. They had a vote based on a specific set of circumstances. These circumstances have been changed against their will and they're in danger of having these circumstances, that they never wanted, forced onto them. As we used to say. "this". It's good that they are doing the vote in 2 years too. So they will actually be able to vote on an actual plan. Personally I think that when the negotiations have taken place to leave the EU, we should have another vote. No one has a **** clue what they've actually voted for here. Edited March 13, 2017 by PieFacE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted March 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, villa89 said: Just keep having the same referendum until you get the result you want. Democracy at it's best. So we should never have elections again? Because the people have spoken? Democracy is best when people continue to argue and fight and discuss once the results come in. And even then, the first Indyref had strong arguments pertaining to the EU. Now that circumstance has changed, so they should have another say. It's basic common sense. Sarcastically writing 'democracy at its finest' while suggesting we shouldn't ever vote on things ever again is up there with labeling sovereign judges enemies of the people. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, snowychap said: I'm pretty sure that one of the constant refrains in the Scottish Independence vote was that the result of voting to leave the UK would be Scotland leaving the EU (and that the papers the SNP produced on this not being the case weren't worth much). I don't know how important that was in deciding the minds of the electorate in Scotland but I wouldn't have thought it was insignificant. To compare the decision Scotland made in its independence referendum and the result of the EU vote within Scottish constituencies with your personal 'happiness' is of no use to the discussion. To frame it in such a way is, frankly, rather missing the whole point - as the second paragraph in your post clearly indicates. It's not just "my" personal happiness as I explained that's very bizarre thing to say considering I stated that the in voters was also who I was referring to. Interesting that you completely ignored the point where I said 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: InStead of moaning (as that's what they really doing) why not try help the UK as whole work together to get us through this tough period? They moaned before we left the EU and they lost their vote. This is just another excuse for her to trigger Scotland leaving the UK. I couldn't care less about them if they want to abandon the Uk They only care about themselves and not the UK that's why I don't care about Scotland. If they were never part of the UK they may never have had the benefits in the EU. The UK already has its own problems dealing with the exit. The timing at this announcement does not suprise me. But don't tell me to start shedding tears if they leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Imagine that, the First Minister of Scotland going on about Scotland a lot, what a word removed. Difference is one talks about Scotland only while the other talks about the UK as a whole not as a seperate entity Edited March 13, 2017 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: But don't tell me to start shedding tears if they leave. Who's doing that? Nobody forced you to make flippant comments. You did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Who's doing that? Nobody forced you to make flippant comments. You did that. Flippant comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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