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Scottish Independence


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12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Difference is one talks about Scotland only while the other talks about the UK as a whole not as a seperate entity 

Yeah. Just like the bloody Chancellor, always talking about the economy. And the bloody Minister for Farming, never shuts up about agriculture.

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EDIT: @Demitri_C

Eh?

Your first comment in this thread was:

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Superb I've had enough of seeing that little toad talking about Scotland like a super power when they are just like an annoying mosquito

Please don't try to tell me this was a serious comment meant to trigger a serious debate. It's the definition of flippancy, insulting and condescending. I'd argue you're not the one to lecture me about maturity when you're calling a politician you don't like 'that little toad'.

 

Edited by StefanAVFC
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It's kinda strange  how the same people saying we are committing economic suicide by leaving the EU applaud Scotland for committing economic suicide by leaving the UK ... The figures make clear that the economic benefits of the Union far outweigh those of the EU.

 

 I know some posters on here don't like to talk deficits but Scotland recently released the national accounts which show that, no matter how much you divide the oil, a separate Scotland would have the largest deficit in the Western world.

 

Sturgeon bluffed a new referendum some time back  and  May called her on it  .... Sturgeon appears to have run out of words and threats so here we are .. Ultimately Sturgeon has backed herself into the same sort of situation Cameron did  ..

 

still at least we aren't talking about Trump for change  ....


 

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Edited by tonyh29
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36 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Just keep having the same referendum until you get the result you want. Democracy at it's best.

This is not exactly true. Scotland staying in the UK means that they will have to leave the EU. Every single council in Scotland had remain majorities and remain 'won' the Scottish vote by 62% to 38%. So a pretty strong majority (in Scotland) wanted to stay in the EU. So it's certainly legitimate to put the 'union' up for debate yet again, since the material circumstances have changed.

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2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

EDIT: @Demitri_C

Eh?

Your first comment in this thread was:

Please don't try to tell me this was a serious comment meant to trigger a serious debate. It's the definition of flippancy, insulting and condescending. I'd argue you're not the one to lecture me about maturity when you're calling a politician you don't like 'that little toad'.

 

Erm...it wasn't meant to cause a serious debate. That is my opinion of sturgeon. If you read further down to what I actually responded later on in have a detailed reason to why I dislike her. Is that a crime StefanAVFC? Just like when people post negatively  about the labour party or tory party what's the difference with this? 

It only turned into a debate as snowy questioned me (which is completely fair as this is a forum) but with Snowy we might not always agree on things but at least he debates and puts his point across constructively unlike your second dig in this response.

If you can't debate then don't quote me please as I have no desire into entering a digging match with you

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3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

It's kinda strange  how the same people saying we are committing economic suicide by leaving the EU applaud Scotland for committing economic suicide by leaving the UK ... The figures make clear that the economic benefits of the Union far outweigh those of the EU.

But that goes both ways doesn't it Tony?

It's also many of the same people saying that the economic arguments should be trumped by a load of vague murmurings about sovereignty and democracy when it comes to our EU membership, but Scotland should just be happy with rule from London because their figures don't add up.

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3 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

But that goes both ways doesn't it Tony?

It's also many of the same people saying that the economic arguments should be trumped by a load of vague murmurings about sovereignty and democracy when it comes to our EU membership, but Scotland should just be happy with rule from London because their figures don't add up.

although of course Scotland would be trading London rule for Brussels rule :P

 

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8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

although of course Scotland would be trading London rule for Brussels rule :P

 

They'll probably remain sovereign even if it doesn't always "feel like that" :) 

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19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Erm...it wasn't meant to cause a serious debate. That is my opinion of sturgeon. If you read further down to what I actually responded later on in have a detailed reason to why I dislike her. Is that a crime StefanAVFC? Just like when people post negatively  about the labour party or tory party what's the difference with this? 

It only turned into a debate as snowy questioned me (which is completely fair as this is a forum) but with Snowy we might not always agree on things but at least he debates and puts his point across constructively unlike your second dig in this response.

If you can't debate then don't quote me please as I have no desire into entering a digging match with you

Let me just get the timeline right here.

  • Come into thread, insult Sturgeon, insult Scotland.
  • Make point against something that literally nobody has said - "don't expect me to shed tears when they leave"
  • Get defensive when called out for your insulting initial comments and further irrelevant jab.
  • Get even more defensive when questioned about defensive response.

Right then. As you were.

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2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Stead of moaning (as that's what they really doing) why not try help the UK as whole work together to get us through this tough period?

There's two conflicting things here. Firstly, you're right in the implication that the SNP, which exists to campaign and aim for Scottish independence will do what it can to get Scottish independence.

The second part, though, is not viable - "why not try help the UK as whole" - because Theresa May is doing everything she can to avoid help and co-operation. Cases in point.

Didn't want a parliamentary vote on article 50, forced into it by the law.

Doesn't want to accept any changes whatsoever to the A50 bill from the Lords

Insists on her timetable and no other.

Doesn't want to allow Parliament to vote on the outcome of Negotiations, even if the option is a bad deal.

There is control freakery in the extreme going on and I can see why the SNP (and planty of others) are hacked off with it.

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4 minutes ago, blandy said:

Didn't want a parliamentary vote on article 50, forced into it by the law.

Doesn't want to accept any changes whatsoever to the A50 bill from the Lords

Insists on her timetable and no other.

Doesn't want to allow Parliament to vote on the outcome of Negotiations, even if the option is a bad deal.

There is control freakery in the extreme going on and I can see why the SNP (and planty of others) are hacked off with it.

There are people who support this who also say that once we have a vote, that's it. 

I think some people just like the idea of being ruled by an authoritarian.. 

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27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Let me just get the timeline right here.

  • Come into thread, insult Sturgeon, insult Scotland.
  • Make point against something that literally nobody has said - "don't expect me to shed tears when they leave"
  • Get defensive when called out for your insulting initial comments and further irrelevant jab.
  • Get even more defensive when questioned about defensive response.

Right then. As you were.

So let me clear up your posts

1st post dig

2nd post another dignore

3rd post adds absolutely nothing to the debate. :wave:

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Just now, Demitri_C said:

So let me clear up your posts

1st post dig

2nd post another dignore

3rd post adds absolutely nothing to the debate. :wave:

Good stuff then. We're on the same page.

Don't make insulting comments if you don't want to be pulled up on them :)

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8 minutes ago, blandy said:

There's two conflicting things here. Firstly, you're right in the implication that the SNP, which exists to campaign and aim for Scottish independence will do what it can to get Scottish independence.

The second part, though, is not viable - "why not try help the UK as whole" - because Theresa May is doing everything she can to avoid help and co-operation. Cases in point.

Didn't want a parliamentary vote on article 50, forced into it by the law.

Doesn't want to accept any changes whatsoever to the A50 bill from the Lords

Insists on her timetable and no other.

Doesn't want to allow Parliament to vote on the outcome of Negotiations, even if the option is a bad deal.

There is control freakery in the extreme going on and I can see why the SNP (and planty of others) are hacked off with it.

See I think it's abit early to say if may is or isn't helping. Personally I don't think there is a plan in place. It's poor planning, and for me the timing leaves a spurs taste in my mouth. The UK is going through one for the biggest changes in our history. Not just scotland

 

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2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Good stuff then. We're on the same page.

Don't make insulting comments if you don't want to be pulled up on them :)

I haven't insulted you but you certainly have tried to insult me on a number of posts and yet continues to add anything to this debate

Your opinion is irrelevant to me anywayB)

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14 minutes ago, blandy said:

the SNP, which exists to campaign and aim for Scottish independence

does that mean they will go the same way as UKIP once they get it and self destruct ?

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1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

I haven't insulted you but you certainly have tried to insult me on a number of posts and yet continues to add anything to this debate

Your opinion is irrelevant to me anywayB)

Really?

You think this was my point? That you insulted me?

I'll try one final time.

You came into this thread making insulting comments about Scotland and Sturgeon. You were called out for this, so you became defensive.

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6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Really?

You think this was my point? That you insulted me?

I'll try one final time.

You came into this thread making insulting comments about Scotland and Sturgeon. You were called out for this, so you became defensive.

I don't care for Scotland for the 20th billion time.

Oh and by the way you didn't call me out for nothing don't flatter yourself. Your posts are getting abit embarrassing now.

Anyway jog on like you said you would as clearly you add nothing to this debate

 

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This is great news, the SNP are going to lose this again and with it any aspirations to break up the UK.

London should embrace the referendum with the caveat that the vote doesn't take place until after the UK's exit from the EU.

Scotland can't simply inherit the UK's spot in the EU anyway and would have to reapply, so the decision should be taken when it's absolutely clear what the future UK/EU arrangements are. That's the only fair solution for the Scottish electorate. 

As an aside my family are moving back from the Middle East to Scotland at the moment, so I'll end up getting a vote in this one! 

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1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

They only care about themselves and not the UK that's why I don't care about Scotland.

There's a difference between the SNP and the SNP's desire for Independence and "Scotland" - It's like saying people shouldn't care about England because the tories only care about themselves.

Scotland is not a Political party. Scotland is worth caring about, in my opinion, at least..

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