Scottish Independence

[blandy]

31 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

does that mean they will go the same way as UKIP once they get it and self destruct ?

Doubt it. But you never know. What do you think, Tony?

[ml1dch]

33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I don't care for Scotland for the 20th billion time.

Oh and by the way you didn't call me out for nothing don't flatter yourself. Your posts are getting abit embarrassing now.

Anyway jog on like you said you would as clearly you add nothing to this debate

 

I'd quit while I was behind if I were you.

[StefanAVFC]

Cl

36 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I don't care for Scotland for the 20th billion time.

Oh and by the way you didn't call me out for nothing don't flatter yourself. Your posts are getting abit embarrassing now.

Anyway jog on like you said you would as clearly you add nothing to this debate

 

clearly care enough to call it a mosquito and sturgeon 'a Little toad'.

nobody made you make those comments.

[tinker]

Any vote to break the Union of England and Scotland should go to all the electorates, English, Welsh, N Irish and Scottish. Its not democratic to allow just one to decide the future of the Union. Let her have her second referendum but make it clear that if she gets one then we all vote

[Rodders]

Why would the other nations vote on whether another nation wants independence? That makes no sense. What stake does an Englishman have in Scottish self rule. Business and holiday interests don't count btw. 

[tinker]

The UK may want its independence from Scotland

[ml1dch]

18 minutes ago, tinker said:

Any vote to break the Union of England and Scotland should go to all the electorates, English, Welsh, N Irish and Scottish. Its not democratic to allow just one to decide the future of the Union. Let her have her second referendum but make it clear that if she gets one then we all vote

Presumably you were also in favour of a vote for all members of the Union that was being broken in June?

I'd said that would be pretty daft, personally.

[tinker]

Just now, ml1dch said:

Presumably you were also in favour of a vote for all members of the Union that was being broken in June?

I'd said that would be pretty daft, personally.

 

Thanks for your opinion

[peterms]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

does that mean they will go the same way as UKIP once they get it and self destruct ?

It's an interesting question.  The answer is that they have to find a way to make a transition from a single-issue party to a party of government - but how will they do that and hold together the various strands which have been united behind independence?  Simply being in government helps, of course.

A former adviser to Salmond discussed that in this piece over a year ago, without the Brexit context, which would of course change the last sentence in the part I've quoted.

Quote

There is a strange moment in the TV coverage of the 2015 UK general election. Nicola Sturgeon is in a debate and a member of the audience admits to liking the new SNP leader but not supporting independence. She asks if she should join the party. Sturgeon listens and answers in what seems like perfect modern politicalese – you are welcome, she says. The audience in the studio and at home are comforted by the generosity, the non-tribalism of Nicola. It seems like a perfect example of our political leaders mending fences after a divisive campaign.

Consider what actually happened in that exchange. The leader of a party whose first tenet is independence is asking a person who openly admits she doesn’t want independence not just to vote for her, but to join the party. She is saying, implying at least, that the SNP is for people who are for Scotland – and that alone. There is no prescription to sign up for independence – just sign up for the SNP and its success. (Watch from 0930 onwards)

This shift in the party’s purpose from independence to being ‘Scotland’s party’ is often read as a simple tactic. The leadership are disguising their main aim, sovereignty, until a referendum victory looks likely. In fact something else is at work. The SNP is shifting its emphasis because the leadership can find no way of achieving the core aim safely...

 

[tonyh29]

56 minutes ago, blandy said:

Doubt it. But you never know. What do you think, Tony?

it's kinda weird isn't it , the SNP who as you say sorta exist for Independence , couldn't win a vote on leaving  and then win nearly every seat in the general election

Assuming they win the indie vote  , I guess in the first instance  , they have to win over the 40+ % that didn't want it , though as they will mostly be 60+ and having lived all their life on a Scottish diet they wont be a problem for long ...

 

but I dunno , I think Sturgeon could be about to **** Scotland over more than England did on Saturday  ...  the irony of course being  I have the opposite pov on England ... it's gonna be messy times though , just as we sort out the EU exit , we then move onto another round of exit talks and settlements ..suppose we could take the  money we give to keep Scotland afloat  and give it to the EU to pay our divorce bill and then the EU can give it to Scotland and everyone is a winner  

 

 

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Interesting that you completely ignored the point where I said

I didn't ignore it, I quoted it and referred to the second paragraph of your post in mine.

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

They only care about themselves and not the UK that's why I don't care about Scotland.

And what you accuse them of, you appear to be doing, too.

Edited March 13, 2017 by snowychap

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

It's kinda strange  how the same people saying we are committing economic suicide by leaving the EU applaud Scotland for committing economic suicide by leaving the UK

I'm not sure that (all of) the people who are posting that they think that it's fair enough that the SNP push for another referendum (as it was one of the things  in their manifesto) or even that there is one think that it's either a good idea economically for the Scottish to leave the UK or a good thing politically for unions to be broken up.

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'm not sure that (all of) the people who are posting that they think that it's fair enough that the SNP push for another referendum (as it was one of the things  in their manifesto) or even that there is one think that it's either a good idea economically for the Scottish to leave the UK or a good thing politically for unions to be broken up.

It's like a 3 way mad house. The SNP wanted and wants to remain in the eu, but leave the uk, the tories want to leave the eu, but keep the uk and the labour leader wants to both oppose and support leaving the EU and Scotland leaving the U.K.

barmpots, the lot of them

[chrisp65]

6 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

thing is had they won first time around , say 52% to 48%  ..would they be giving the 48% a second referendum or would they have said Jockxit means Jockxit  and that's your lot ?

just seems people want to re run every bloody vote these days until they get the result they want  ... Unless my lifetime is about to be cut drastically short I thought there wasn't going to be a second indie vote during mine 

Democracy may be an on going process but sometimes you can't help but feel it isn't for the people , just vested interests of a few

 

5 hours ago, villa89 said:

Just keep having the same referendum until you get the result you want. Democracy at it's best.

The UK had previously voted by a stomping 67% to 33% to join the grand european project.

End of?

No, because circumstances change. Like, being told if you want to remain in the EU you have to vote to remain in the union. Except that turned out to be not all that accurate.

Personally, I don't think they'll vote to re negotiate a lesser deal with their major trading partner in the hope something unknown might turn up and be better.

You'd have to be a bit 'special' to vote for that.

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, blandy said:

There's a difference between the SNP and the SNP's desire for Independence and "Scotland" - It's like saying people shouldn't care about England because the tories only care about themselves.

Scotland is not a Political party. Scotland is worth caring about, in my opinion, at least..

I don't think sturgeon cares about the rest of the uk to be honest, just Scottish interests hence why I don't care about her.

i find her more irritating than May.

if she had said ok I'll take a step back wait and see what happens once we trigger the exit then in future she said she wants to run another referendum then fine no problem. The timing for me leaves a bitter taste in my mouth

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I don't think sturgeon cares about the rest of the uk to be honest, just Scottish interests

why she's a member of the SNP is a mystery to us both mate

 

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

why she's a member of the SNP is a mystery to us both mate

 

Exactly so why should I care about them?!

scotland care only about Scotland. Just like if you ukipwere in power they only care about ukip

Edited March 13, 2017 by Demitri_C

[StefanAVFC]

[villakram]

Ahh the poor confused Brexiters... brill Nic 

[villakram]

5 hours ago, Awol said:

This is great news, the SNP are going to lose this again and with it any aspirations to break up the UK.

London should embrace the referendum with the caveat that the vote doesn't take place until after the UK's exit from the EU.

Scotland can't simply inherit the UK's spot in the EU anyway and would have to reapply, so the decision should be taken when it's absolutely clear what the future UK/EU arrangements are. That's the only fair solution for the Scottish electorate. 

As an aside my family are moving back from the Middle East to Scotland at the moment, so I'll end up getting a vote in this one! 

and when exactly will the May and her merry band have this sorted out? Next UK election is gonna be a doozy!