Scottish Independence

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

But generally, lowering the age to 16 should be a good thing.

Either that, or raise the age of everything else to 18.

 

When a 16-year-old runs off with their schoolteacher they are deemed too emotionally immature to make an informed decision, but simultaneously they are considered mature enough to vote.

 

I can't square this circle.

 

When a 16 year old runs off with their schoolteacher, the outcry has nothing to do with the emotional immaturity of the victim. It is however everything to do with the schoolteacher abusing his/her position of responsibility for that person.

 

 

But doesn't your use of the word 'victim' suggest that one party is less able to exercise moral agency than the other due to their age?

[bickster]

Thats a) the law of the land and it was the easiest way to convey which of the two parties I was on about

[peterms]

 

The interesting bit is the 16-24 age group. Poll data in the run up for months suggested that the 16-18 age group were consistently in the NO camp and thats the group that Salmond fought tooth and nail to get enfranchised.

There was an Ashcroft poll in the Grauniad (here) which had the 18-24 group broken down as follows:

Scottish independence: poll reveals who voted, how and why

16-17: Yes - 71%; No - 29%

18-24: Yes - 48%; No - 52%

 

 

But look at the sample size for that agegroup - 14.  Hopeless.

 

[snowychap]

But look at the sample size for that agegroup - 14.  Hopeless.

Ha ha.

They probably rang during school hours (and they were all out getting pished).

Edited September 24, 2014 by snowychap

[chrisp65]

 

 

The interesting bit is the 16-24 age group. Poll data in the run up for months suggested that the 16-18 age group were consistently in the NO camp and thats the group that Salmond fought tooth and nail to get enfranchised.

There was an Ashcroft poll in the Grauniad (here) which had the 18-24 group broken down as follows:

Scottish independence: poll reveals who voted, how and why

16-17: Yes - 71%; No - 29%

18-24: Yes - 48%; No - 52%

 

 

But look at the sample size for that agegroup - 14.  Hopeless.

 

 

 

excellent example of received or anecdotal wisdom versus the stats versus the stats behind the stats

[chrisp65]

 

But generally, lowering the age to 16 should be a good thing.

Either that, or raise the age of everything else to 18.

 

When a 16-year-old runs off with their schoolteacher they are deemed too emotionally immature to make an informed decision, but simultaneously they are considered mature enough to vote.

 

I can't square this circle. 

 

 

it's as simple as no taxation without representation (as the canadians or some other colony got all hissy about)

 

if a 16 year old can pay income tax on a full time contracted job, they get to say who they want spending the tax

 

or we stop emotionally immature 26 year man children living at home with mum getting the vote

[Demitri_C]

all i see is damage between the home nations now, not unity (look at the comments from a ukip donor)

[chrisp65]

all i see is damage between the home nations now, not unity (look at the comments from a ukip donor)

 

you can take a negative out of any situation if you really want to

 

or you can see an opportunity to address some stuff that was wrong and make sure everyone understands why we're better together - after all, big business, the military, international banking, the US government and all major UK political parties believe we are better together - now there's a once in a generation opportunity to prove it

 

or they can just relax, 'cos lies got them through a tough week but now that shit is over

[bickster]

if a 16 year old can pay income tax on a full time contracted job, they get to say who they want spending the tax

They can't, kids have to stay in education until they're 18 now

[chrisp65]

 

if a 16 year old can pay income tax on a full time contracted job, they get to say who they want spending the tax

They can't, kids have to stay in education until they're 18 now

 

 

According to the government website they can actually leave school in June of the year they are 15, providing they'd be 16 by the time the next school year starts, i.e. somebody with a birthday in July can leave school aged 15. Elsewhere on the same site, people under 18 can work up to 40 hours.

 

Govt employment website says at 16 you have to be in paid work, self employed, an apprentice, in training or in education or a mix of these. What you can't be is an old school doley (neets). At age 16, they have to be paid through PAYE and officially enrolled on the staff payroll if they earn over £111 per week.

 

They must do 'some' part time education or training (which can be on the job CDP), up until their 17th birthday. That's how the army can recruit 16 year olds, a parental consent and a bit of on the job training with a certificate at the end of it and you're in. 

 

So you could, in a very tenuous theoretical life, be a married member of the army, with a kid, doing 30mph up the High Street on your scooter, on the PAYE payroll - but not considered old enough or mature enough to vote in the local council elections.

 

I appreciate there aren't many in that demographic.

[blandy]

 international banking, the US government and all major UK political parties believe we are better together

 

Might there be a slight credibility issue there, possibly? If only the estate agents and the media (what, did they?, oh) could somehow add their trustworthy voices into the mix., surely that'd sort it.

[bickster]

Alex Salmond got roundly booed when presenting the Ryder Cup yesterday, greatly amused me.

[Croydon_Villain]

Maybe I'm a bad person, but I'm finding this very very funny...

 

Councils move to collect unpaid tax from thousands who signed up for indyref vote

 

THOUSANDS of people who signed up to vote in the independence referendum face the prospect of official letters landing on their doormats demanding unpaid council tax.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/poorest-face-punishment-after-voting-in-referendum.25465772

[bickster]

I see the Scottish Parliament today missed a trick on its way to the socialist nirvana that many in Scotland seemed to think was only a stone's throw away by awarding the Scotrail franchise to a Dutch company for ten years. That'll be Scotland subsidising the Dutch Public Transport system. Way to go fishmon… but at least it was Scots who sold out the Scots eh?

[villaajax]

I don't see a problem with that

[Risso]

 

if a 16 year old can pay income tax on a full time contracted job, they get to say who they want spending the tax

They can't, kids have to stay in education until they're 18 now

 

 

Whether that's true or not, there's no minimum age to start paying income tax in any case.  Everybody is liable, if they earn enough.

[bickster]

if a 16 year old can pay income tax on a full time contracted job, they get to say who they want spending the tax

They can't, kids have to stay in education until they're 18 now

 

Whether that's true or not, there's no minimum age to start paying income tax in any case.  Everybody is liable, if they earn enough.

Not sure anyone meant to dispute that, the discussion was more about the full time contracted job bit imo

[tonyh29]

Are Scotland going to follow the Irish model of referendum whereby you keep going until you get the result you want ?

 

Sturgeon saying she hopes to one day lead an independent Scotland  ...  presumably if the SNP romp home in 2015 there will be new calls for Independence and we go again  ....

[bickster]

Must mean Alex Salmond will die soon

[MakemineVanilla]