blandy Posted March 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, Chindie said: In b4 the ah but of 'she didn't say they couldn't have another referendum, she said not now'. Which is more fair than the evil ersatz Thatcher wannabe deserves. The SNPs don't want one now, so her answer is even more mental. They want one once there's a clearer idea of where Brexit is headed, but while we're still in the Eu, and before the jocks are kicked out of it against their will. Staying in the single market was in the Tory manifesto, holding a referendum was in the snp manifesto, now May is breaking her promise, while not wanting the SNP to stick to theirs. May is poison. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: In b4 the ah but of 'she didn't say they couldn't have another referendum, she said not now'. Which is more fair than the evil ersatz Thatcher wannabe deserves. It's kind of like (but not like at all) the firefighters on strike. The danger is Scotland (the firefighters) will lose the public (other U.K. nationals) support as the rest of the UK are hoping to get some kind of decent deal from the divorce and those selfish bastards don't give a shit about the rest of us and risking **** everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, blandy said: The SNPs don't want one now, so her answer is even more mental. They want one once there's a clearer idea of where Brexit is headed, but while we're still in the Eu, and before the jocks are kicked out of it against their will. Staying in the single market was in the Tory manifesto, holding a referendum was in the snp manifesto, now May is breaking her promise, while not wanting the SNP to stick to theirs. May is poison. I thought she said by the end of '18 / start of '19 which we'd still all be in the EU and not have finalised any deal. it'll all get done in the last few weeks and days of the negotiation window. Its an incredibly selfish act by the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Genie said: 5 minutes ago, Genie said: I thought she said by the end of '18 / start of '19 which we'd still all be in the EU and not have finalised any deal. it'll all get done in the last few weeks and days of the negotiation window. Its an incredibly selfish act by the SNP. The timing is what I said we're agreeing I think on that selfish by the SNP, well yes to an extent, but then again May promised not to trigger a50 until the various Scots, Irish Welsh parliaments had all agreed on the timing etc . The whole thing is being driven by the selfish interests of the tories in keeping their extreme hard Brexit lot quiet under the circus I don't blame sturgeon one bit her job is to fulfill her manifesto that she was elected under May inherited her leadership, and is doing the opposite of what she said she would. her fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, blandy said: The timing is what I said we're agreeing I think on that selfish by the SNP, well yes to an extent, but then again May promised not to trigger a50 until the various Scots, Irish Welsh parliaments had all agreed on the timing etc . The whole thing is being driven by the selfish interests of the tories in keeping their extreme hard Brexit lot quiet under the circus I don't blame sturgeon one bit her job is to fulfill her manifesto that she was elected under May inherited her leadership, and is doing the opposite of what she said she would. her fault. I must admit I'm not that close to it but of course the Scots had 1 crack at it already, did Sturgeon get re-elected since then on the promise of a second referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Genie said: I must admit I'm not that close to it but of course the Scots had 1 crack at it already, They had 'one crack' under the guise of 'stay and be in the EU' or 'Leave and we have to negotiate our EU position from scratch'. Now the UK is leaving the EU but Scotland voted to stay and are being dragged out against their will and the circumstances around the first ref have changed dramatically. Quote did Sturgeon get re-elected since then on the promise of a second referendum? Quote thi Not really sure of the relevance of this as she hasn't been re-elected since we voted to Leave. Edited March 16, 2017 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, Genie said: I must admit I'm not that close to it but of course the Scots had 1 crack at it already, did Sturgeon get re-elected since then on the promise of a second referendum? Their manifesto promised they would seek a new referendum if a significant change in circumstances (such as being taken out of the EU against their will) arose. Such circumstances have arisen and so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The Scottish independence push seems to be one of the worst thought out, high risk gambles I've ever seen in politics. It could genuinely **** them up good and proper if the leave the U.K. and then get nothing from the EU, lose the use of GBP and watch all the big business leave the country. Seems mental to me, but then again, we've seen a lot of success recently of the "we want our country back" tag line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Back in July May told Sturgeon she wouldn't trigger article 50 without Scotland on board. Back in about October / November (?) May promised the various leaders of N.I., Wales and Scotland that she would consult them before any major strategy was announced. She didn't have to legally, but she wanted everyone on board and wanted to take the whole of the UK along with her. There was another meeting arranged, in Cardiff, for January 30th for discussions and to brief the three assemblies and parliaments to bring them up to speed. January 17th, without consultation or information, May made a speech announcing we were leaving the Single Market. 13 days before she was due to 'consult' with Sturgeon et al. Sturgeon is going to rely on emotion against an unlistening right wing nutjob Westminster to squeeze over the line. My money is on Scotland remaining in the UK. Big questions like money are still unresolved. Of the last three big elections and referendums, I've called them all wrong. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Genie said: The Scottish independence push seems to be one of the worst thought out, high risk gambles I've ever seen in politics. There's a fairly obvious bigger one going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: There's a fairly obvious bigger one going on. Scottish independence would be far worse for Scotland than the UK leaving the EU though. That silly cow Sturgeon should realise they had a lucky escape last time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Risso said: Scottish independence would be far worse for Scotland than the UK leaving the EU though. That silly cow Sturgeon should realise they had a lucky escape last time. I can't criticise her for firmly held beliefs about national independence. What is ridiculous is trying to hold a referendum on it before the Brexit negotiations are complete. Under all circumstances Scotland is going to exit the EU with the rest of the UK. If the Scots chose to leave the UK that process would take several years and they can't become an EU member until they are a separate country. The EU has already said Scotland can't inherit the UK's membership & would have to reapply - the Barosso doctrine. Whether that involves waiting in the queue of accession states for 5-10 years or getting fast-tracked in just a few years (unlikely as would mightily upset the states of the western Balkans, which are in any case a more urgent geopolitical priority to fend of Russian influence), you'd still be looking at Scotland being outside the EU until 2023 at the earliest. That being the case the only reason why the SNP want indyref2 before UK leaves the EU is to try and sell it on the uncertainty of post Brexit arrangements. So it's about the SNPseeking tactical advantage, not about Scotland or a clear & fair choice for its people. FWIW I think there should be a second referendum in 2020 if the appetite clearly exists for it, but as for allowing it to derail and undermine the UK's negotiating position Ms Sturgeon can foxtrot oscar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: It'll be interesting to see what happens to the opinion polls in Scotland now the unelected english tory PM has told the elected scottish snp first minister that she can't have a referendum on whether the scots want independence. I'm beginning to form an opinion that Ms May might not be a top rank tactical genius. That'll be the Scottish First Minister who inherited the position without a contested leadership election, then governed for 18 months before getting a mandate from the Scottish electorate? Although she probably had more legitimacy than the Scottish UK Prime Minister who inherited his position in an uncontested leadership transition, then signed the UK up to the Lisbon Treaty, after his predecessor gave a manifesto commitment to have a referendum on the EU constitution - the same document under a new name. The 'unelected English Tory PM' trope seems like a pretty weak line of attack given both recent precedent and its constitutional irrelevance. Edited March 17, 2017 by Awol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Risso said: Scottish independence would be far worse for Scotland than the UK leaving the EU though. That silly cow Sturgeon should realise they had a lucky escape last time. But but the North Sea oil.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 As much as I dislike sturgeon she is quite clever as I suspect she knew it would be rejectEd by may now she will brainwash Scotland how independence is better for them as may controls them. I'm not keen on may but she is right priority has to be leaving Eu for now. If there is to be a referendum let it be once we are gone as they can't stay in even if they leave the UK. Imagine they leave the UK and then get rejected to join the EU. It would be a complete disaster for Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Awol said: That'll be the Scottish First Minister who inherited the position without a contested leadership election, then governed for 18 months before getting a mandate from the Scottish electorate? How is that different to what Chris said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Risso said: Scottish independence would be far worse for Scotland than the UK leaving the EU though. That silly cow Sturgeon should realise they had a lucky escape last time. I have to agree, the idea that Scotland can live and thrive on it's own is madness. Do they even have the resources to fund it ? (as in Jobs / people / skills) ? Sturgeon is playing games she is not fit to play and she is just bitter, bitter at being born Scottish, bitter at been the epitome that is all that is wrong with Scotland. Bitter, jealous and unable to see when you are onto a good thing. The addiction to losing will ultimately start to take hold and she will end up like Salmon, a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I have to agree, the idea that Scotland can live and thrive on it's own is madness. Do they even have the resources to fund it ? (as in Jobs / people / skills) ? Sturgeon is playing games she is not fit to play and she is just bitter, bitter at being born Scottish, bitter at been the epitome that is all that is wrong with Scotland. Bitter, jealous and unable to see when you are onto a good thing. The addiction to losing will ultimately start to take hold and she will end up like Salmon, a loser. Xenophobic remainers, and very bitter! What do the english want?....we want the opposite. If we had voted to remain they would have still wanted another go at independence. They've just jumped on the anti brexit bandwagon to drum up more patriotic chest beating support...or try to!! What would be great to see is if they do have another stab at it and they still vote to stay in the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, RimmyJimmer said: Xenophobic remainers, and very bitter! What do the english want?....we want the opposite. If we had voted to remain they would have still wanted another go at independence. They've just jumped on the anti brexit bandwagon to drum up more patriotic chest beating support...or try to!! What would be great to see is if they do have another stab at it and they still vote to stay in the UK. Yeah until she calls for a 3rd, 5th and 97th referendum for independence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, RimmyJimmer said: Xenophobic remainers Projection at its finest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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