Irreverentad's Relationship Advice Thread

[Chindie]

I have long had a bit of a theory when it comes to partners. I think of all of humanity as a pyramid. At the top of that pyramid there's your perfect partner. Someone who on every level, down to the tiniest detail, in every respect, even in the most imperceptible way, is exactly what you want from a partner.

As you go down the slopes of the pyramid you that level of perfection drops. Just below the pinnacle it might be that they're perfect in every way but have an irritating laugh, or love a band that sets your teeth on edge, or their body is a shade away from what really ticks your boxes, or they've got a mole on their arse that looks a bit odd. Below that, a few more steps away from the absolute perfection, and so on.

The hope is, if you do end up getting in a relationship, you meet someone as high up that pyramid as possible.

The thing is though... There's 7 billion people out there. Chances are for most people you're only interested in half of those, but it's still 3.5 billion. And that's if you accept the pyramid as only being people alive now. It might be the case that the absolute, perfect for you partner, down to I dunno, genetic level, lived in the reign of Victoria. 

There's solace in this though. Chances are, you aren't going to end up with your absolutely perfect partner. But as you go down the pyramid, the chances of meeting those people increase, and in many cases they will be pretty **** good fit for you too (except for that mole the shape of Austria on their left arse cheek). There's more of them. And not only that, it also means that if the relationship ends... there's more. And it also means when you take stock after a breakup, that actually when you really think about it, maybe that person you loved so much actually wasnt as far up the pyramid as you thought. Maybe the breakup is a chance to climb the slope in the fullness of time.

[Rodders]

I was terrified by my emotional state after my first relationship break up. I was about 25 or 26, and all I had was this awareness of the powerlessness I felt in the face of an overwhelming sadness and insecurity. I was shocked that I felt so 'de-anchored' by it all for a few days I feared I might kill myself. I didn't trust myself at all not to do anything stupid. I couldnt live alone. The emptiness of the place, the imposing large walls just screamed "Alone" at me in a way I had never experienced before.This sensation of loss, I presume bears some parallels to a grief for a close loved one. The degree to which I found this new feeling was so alienating and overwhelming, it was as my friend would later tell me, proof that I had  actively lived and engaged with the world at that rawest level. It was horrible, but it came to be, over time,  a really formative experience in how I came to approach life. Yes, you can end up putting up a bit of a protective shield against feeling that way again, but also, I did get past it, and I did find my attitude to dating had matured a bit. You learn to put your interests more forward and be accepting of what you want. 

For me, I decided to learn a musical instrument. That only lasted about 6 months but I just got lost in absorbing  a new activity, it gave me a sense of fulfilment and development when I needed it most. It was a distraction but it was all about what I wanted to do. By doing that it also told me that I could find those rewarding experiences on my own. That romantic entanglement wasn't the only way to find those ends. 

It sounds to me that this break up loss is hitting you seriously hard, and I totally understand that feeling. All I can offer again is the encouragement as others have said to just focus on activities that can give you pleasure and fulfilment. There are also meet up groups, I've used them before, which can be a great way of finding some other forms of companionship in the short term. Maybe it's just a set of folk meeting up for a weekly pub quiz or a film club social. But that can be a way of meeting new people, without the romantic element overshadowing the experience.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Rodders

[kurtsimonw]

Thanks for your replies guys.

I feel I'm doing mostly the right things overall, but I worry that some of them could backfire. 

A month after the breakup, I bought a house. I'd always lived with my parents - though I moved in with my ex for 6 months - but I know my inability to be a "man around the house" was an issue. I didn't buy the house to impress her, she doesn't know about it. But I'll be moving in in less than a month I believe. But the the loneliness @Rodders outlines above is something that scares me. I know that it's a necessary step in my personal growth, as is getting a car which I'll hopefully be doing in the next few months, but I do worry about being alone with it.

I've also rejoined the gym after a few months absence, which again is a good thing. I hope I'll look better and I know my anxiety has improved immeasurably. I would never have touched free weights personally, but now I've no real issues in going in on my own and doing my own thing. It is a hobby of mine (football and film being others, not ideal to meet women) and is what I spend most of my free time doing. I've been working 2 hours overtime a day and then 5 hours at the weekend, so between work and the gym I'm keeping busy.

@Chindie I don't think you're wrong with that, I wonder if I could ever let go of her if she's more perfect than others I meet? I don't think I'm entirely selfish, when I look back the memories that warm my heart the most are the ones that are more for her than me. Watching Love Actually at Symphony Hall. Her calling me from Tesco and having a cry because she was so happy to spend Christmas with me, and the carol singers set her off. She is 47 and never tried for a baby with anyone but me.. part of me I feel won't let me let go of these things. I know she was so happy, certainly at some point. I think my anxieties and inability to be a "man" as such pushed her away, and I worry I'll hate myself forever in some way - because I wanted to "save her" as such. I know she clearly doesn't want "saving" by me, certainly not now, but I wanted it to work just as much for her as I did for me. I can't throw things away of hers, and I do think should I meet anyone else - that would be an issue.

@DCJonah I can see where you're coming from. Spending time with Kym made me feel like the previous 30 years of my life, and all the shit I went through, were more than worth it. So I can accept that finding someone else may have me look back in a different way. She is a believer in things happen for a reason and says "Maybe you needed me to show up in your life to keep you around, so that you could grow and become something more". Maybe that's right.

I did meet a work colleague for lunch today, that I rarely see. He said he often goes for drinks with a few others from work and I should come along. I get along well enough with the others who go, so would be nice for me to meet up with them, it'll give me something social at least.

I do feel like shit. I still want her back more than anything. The hope I could get her back is helping drive me forward a little, and obviously I want that reconciliation at some point. Maybe it's unhealthy, but it is giving me that push. I want this anxiety gone, I want to like how I look, and be more confident.

[Rodders]

There's so much positive stuff you're doing from the sound of things, and definitely DO BE SOCIAL with your colleague. It's an excellent opportunity As for football and film not being direct links into meeting women - they don't have to be, but never downplay what's important and makes you tick. A good partner will love / mock affectionally what gets you going. My partner is baffled by cricket, and she mocks it, but will go along and watch games, but she would do that if what I liked doing was morris dancing at midnight. ( well, maybe ) Listening to someone discuss their interests with enthusiasm is engaging and attractive. So, not saying you were doing that, but just inc ase you feel that it's a hnderance to meeting people, it isn't. Liking film will always give you that option of sharing your interests, by suggesting films you like, and assuming you don't confine your interest to some weirdly specific niche genre like 'angry cellists stomping ants' that is always a positive hobby.

But yes, it will feel shit for a while, how long that lasts varies. But being aware that it is a process, that does have an end I hope can make it seem less endless and miserable. But doing the gymn and being social and all that will help - time will pass and your focus will be taken up by new people - and new targets - 'you're going to aim to achieve target x in the gymn over the next month' etc. So Keep doing the positive stuff, and accept it will take a bit of time, but the more you focus on doing other stuff, the quicker that time passes.

And on your ex, do remember any healthy relationship should never require hoop jumping. You want to feel that "power" is fairly equal, and that you wouldn't want to be at the beck and call of her. That's just not healthy, believing that changing yourself to meet the assumed desires of someone else ( whoever that maybe, including as yet unnamed future dates ) won't work, but if that flicker of hope is getting you out there, then great, let that flicker drive you on, just have it in the back of your mind, that this driving you on, should be primarily to get you feeling good about yourself.

Best of luck though, and enjoy the sun!

[Xela]

@kurtsimonw Having your own place will help you grow as a person massively. Good work on the gym and also meeting your work colleague for lunch. Like you say, no reason why you can't do that more often 

[kurtsimonw]

1 hour ago, Rodders said:

And on your ex, do remember any healthy relationship should never require hoop jumping. You want to feel that "power" is fairly equal, and that you wouldn't want to be at the beck and call of her. That's just not healthy, believing that changing yourself to meet the assumed desires of someone else ( whoever that maybe, including as yet unnamed future dates ) won't work, but if that flicker of hope is getting you out there, then great, let that flicker drive you on, just have it in the back of your mind, that this driving you on, should be primarily to get you feeling good about yourself.

I do agree with this, but I do believe the issues were mostly down to me not being an equal in terms of power. The house, car, confidence, etc will actually equalise that. Whenever we did anything, she had to drive. She had to lead with the housework and even in bed as I had zero experience. I went in to the relationship depressed with who I was, and became happy. But I didn't deal with things, and Kym told me as such, and said she just wasn't equipped to do so.

The steps I'm taking will give me more respect for myself and in turn, people will respect me more. I don't want to be that needy, anxious, guy that she broke up with. I want to be someone who is more confident and self assured. Not just for her, like you say, it could be for anyone.

The worst part is a mutual friend talked to her about the breakup and what went wrong. She outlined the stuff I mentioned above, and their conversation ended with if those things weren't there, I'd be the one. It was both lovely and painful to hear. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by kurtsimonw

[Demitri_C]

16 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Thanks for your replies guys.

I feel I'm doing mostly the right things overall, but I worry that some of them could backfire. 

A month after the breakup, I bought a house. I'd always lived with my parents - though I moved in with my ex for 6 months - but I know my inability to be a "man around the house" was an issue. I didn't buy the house to impress her, she doesn't know about it. But I'll be moving in in less than a month I believe. But the the loneliness @Rodders outlines above is something that scares me. I know that it's a necessary step in my personal growth, as is getting a car which I'll hopefully be doing in the next few months, but I do worry about being alone with it.

I've also rejoined the gym after a few months absence, which again is a good thing. I hope I'll look better and I know my anxiety has improved immeasurably. I would never have touched free weights personally, but now I've no real issues in going in on my own and doing my own thing. It is a hobby of mine (football and film being others, not ideal to meet women) and is what I spend most of my free time doing. I've been working 2 hours overtime a day and then 5 hours at the weekend, so between work and the gym I'm keeping busy.

@Chindie I don't think you're wrong with that, I wonder if I could ever let go of her if she's more perfect than others I meet? I don't think I'm entirely selfish, when I look back the memories that warm my heart the most are the ones that are more for her than me. Watching Love Actually at Symphony Hall. Her calling me from Tesco and having a cry because she was so happy to spend Christmas with me, and the carol singers set her off. She is 47 and never tried for a baby with anyone but me.. part of me I feel won't let me let go of these things. I know she was so happy, certainly at some point. I think my anxieties and inability to be a "man" as such pushed her away, and I worry I'll hate myself forever in some way - because I wanted to "save her" as such. I know she clearly doesn't want "saving" by me, certainly not now, but I wanted it to work just as much for her as I did for me. I can't throw things away of hers, and I do think should I meet anyone else - that would be an issue.

@DCJonah I can see where you're coming from. Spending time with Kym made me feel like the previous 30 years of my life, and all the shit I went through, were more than worth it. So I can accept that finding someone else may have me look back in a different way. She is a believer in things happen for a reason and says "Maybe you needed me to show up in your life to keep you around, so that you could grow and become something more". Maybe that's right.

I did meet a work colleague for lunch today, that I rarely see. He said he often goes for drinks with a few others from work and I should come along. I get along well enough with the others who go, so would be nice for me to meet up with them, it'll give me something social at least.

I do feel like shit. I still want her back more than anything. The hope I could get her back is helping drive me forward a little, and obviously I want that reconciliation at some point. Maybe it's unhealthy, but it is giving me that push. I want this anxiety gone, I want to like how I look, and be more confident.

Great work Kurt. Although you don't realise. It your actually taking massive positive steps in your life. You have brought a home, going to get yourself a vehicle and train at the gym. 

These are all attractive qualities a host of women like. 

As for your ex I think this is a sense of this being your first real relationship. I had similar thoughts with my first gf. When when I met someone else I realised it wasn't her it was the fact I was with someone that I wanted so bad. She was abit if a knob!  (not saying your ex was mind you just speaking in my experience) 

When you joina gym look for one with classes like a abs and tum class as it's generally full of women and gives yoh a opportunity to socialise with people as I think that's soenthing that wilm benefit you greatly. 

[Chindie]

20 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Chindie I don't think you're wrong with that, I wonder if I could ever let go of her if she's more perfect than others I meet? I don't think I'm entirely selfish, when I look back the memories that warm my heart the most are the ones that are more for her than me. Watching Love Actually at Symphony Hall. Her calling me from Tesco and having a cry because she was so happy to spend Christmas with me, and the carol singers set her off. She is 47 and never tried for a baby with anyone but me.. part of me I feel won't let me let go of these things. I know she was so happy, certainly at some point. I think my anxieties and inability to be a "man" as such pushed her away, and I worry I'll hate myself forever in some way - because I wanted to "save her" as such. I know she clearly doesn't want "saving" by me, certainly not now, but I wanted it to work just as much for her as I did for me. I can't throw things away of hers, and I do think should I meet anyone else - that would be an issue.

The chances are she isn't more perfect than anyone else, just by the maths of it all. That's obviously hard to understand now, but in time that will fade, and eventually the 'gap' that right now is being filled with the longing and regret for this woman will be filled by something (most likely, someone) else. And you'll be able to look back on this relationship with a more logical reasoned eye and come to realise that this wasn't the be all and end all.

In some ways a break up is like mourning. It is all encompassing of your emotions, and it drowns everything. And it will never quite go away. But unlike mourning, while it doesn't go away entirely, there will be always be those memories, a break up is something that ultimately is filled by something else. I mentioned I still regret a fling in some ways. I still have vivid memories of that relationship. A night out where we ended up literally having a club form a ring on the dancefloor around us as we danced (well, I attempted to dance) like something from a film. A Halloween party that became the heaviest night of my life. A running argument that remains the most vicious and nasty row I've ever had with anyone. Those are all a decade ago. I still remember them, and I still remember her, and I still in some ways think what might have been. But it didn't go anywhere, for the best, and I went on with life and met my partner and she filled all those spaces.

This will eventually come to pass with you too.

You also will come to realise that it was probably for the best it didn't work out. Again it's hard to see now, but if, for instance, you're right and your 'manliness' and anxieties were an issue, and those are a part of who you are and will always be, then it was never going to be a relationship that would prosper. That's not to say that if you do have anxieties that are problematical you shouldn't try to improve them (I know all too well about that with a crippling anxiety disorder), but also there's no point trying to fake who you are to make a relationship work. If she did need a bear of a man who can fell trees with his teeth, bend steel girders round his dick and uses a wheelbarrow to transport his bollocks, and that isn't you, then it wasn't going to work on the end.

Things will be fine in time. Don't worry about it. Give yourself the time to get over it, to move on, to enjoy yourself, if you do want to work on anything in yourself use this opportunity to do it, and grow from it. In a few years you'll look back on this and still have the happy memories of her, but you'll also see that the path you took afterwards probably wasn't all that bad either.

[Davkaus]

2 years in, I got the ultimatum. Do I want kids, or should we split up. ****. 

[brommy]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

2 years in, I got the ultimatum. Do I want kids, or should we split up. ****. 

Do you never want to be a father or has she suggested a timescale you don’t like?

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

Do you never want to be a father or has she suggested a timescale you don’t like?

I genuinely think that children are the worst thing in the world. Someone obviously has to have them for the survival of our species, but why does it have to be me?

They're noisy, inconvenient, and expensive. And I like my life how it is. I like the freedom to just go and do what I want, at any time, my only real obligation is my job, and even that's a fairly loose thing. I like that I could just get up and sod off abroad tomorrow, or decide to stay out all night without having to worry about childcare...And I like not having to pay for childcare. I like being able to wake up on a Saturday, go to the football, have a few drinks, then spend Sunday playing games in my pants without having to worry about raising and being a good influence for a child. I like coming home from work to a tidy, quiet house, and just being able to do what I want. 

Yeah, I'm a selfish prick, but I like it. People have been telling me I'd change my mind for about a decade.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

I genuinely think that children are the worst thing in the world. Someone obviously has to have them for the survival of our species, but why does it have to be me?

They're noisy, inconvenient, and expensive. And I like my life how it is. I like the freedom to just go and do what I want, at any time, my only real obligation is my job, and even that's a fairly loose thing. I like that I could just get up and sod off abroad tomorrow, or decide to stay out all night without having to worry about childcare...And I like not having to pay for childcare. I like being able to wake up on a Saturday, go to the football, have a few drinks, then spend Sunday playing games in my pants without having to worry about raising and being a good influence for a child. I like coming home from work to a tidy, quiet house, and just being able to do what I want. 

Yeah, I'm a selfish prick, but I like it. People have been telling me I'd change my mind for about a decade.

Mate I respect your honesty if you laid the cards down at start then I don't know why your partner is telling you now? 

Kids isn't for everyone. I get that. I must admit I have had similar thoughts. 

[villarule123]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I genuinely think that children are the worst thing in the world. Someone obviously has to have them for the survival of our species, but why does it have to be me?

They're noisy, inconvenient, and expensive. And I like my life how it is. I like the freedom to just go and do what I want, at any time, my only real obligation is my job, and even that's a fairly loose thing. I like that I could just get up and sod off abroad tomorrow, or decide to stay out all night without having to worry about childcare...And I like not having to pay for childcare. I like being able to wake up on a Saturday, go to the football, have a few drinks, then spend Sunday playing games in my pants without having to worry about raising and being a good influence for a child. I like coming home from work to a tidy, quiet house, and just being able to do what I want. 

Yeah, I'm a selfish prick, but I like it. People have been telling me I'd change my mind for about a decade.

Think you've just answered it for yourself!

[Xela]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I genuinely think that children are the worst thing in the world. Someone obviously has to have them for the survival of our species, but why does it have to be me?

They're noisy, inconvenient, and expensive. And I like my life how it is. I like the freedom to just go and do what I want, at any time, my only real obligation is my job, and even that's a fairly loose thing. I like that I could just get up and sod off abroad tomorrow, or decide to stay out all night without having to worry about childcare...And I like not having to pay for childcare. I like being able to wake up on a Saturday, go to the football, have a few drinks, then spend Sunday playing games in my pants without having to worry about raising and being a good influence for a child. I like coming home from work to a tidy, quiet house, and just being able to do what I want. 

Yeah, I'm a selfish prick, but I like it. People have been telling me I'd change my mind for about a decade.

Not selfish, just your preference. 

I'm similar. No desire to have children. 

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

2 years in, I got the ultimatum. Do I want kids, or should we split up. ****. 

 

How long's the finance deal on that 2 seater?

[Davkaus]

13 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

How long's the finance deal on that 2 seater?

Could I get some sort of side car? 

[Xela]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Could I get some sort of side car? 

Don't be silly. 

A trailer is a better option. 

[chrisp65]

 

[brommy]

8 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I genuinely think that children are the worst thing in the world. Someone obviously has to have them for the survival of our species, but why does it have to be me?

They're noisy, inconvenient, and expensive. And I like my life how it is. I like the freedom to just go and do what I want, at any time, my only real obligation is my job, and even that's a fairly loose thing. I like that I could just get up and sod off abroad tomorrow, or decide to stay out all night without having to worry about childcare...And I like not having to pay for childcare. I like being able to wake up on a Saturday, go to the football, have a few drinks, then spend Sunday playing games in my pants without having to worry about raising and being a good influence for a child. I like coming home from work to a tidy, quiet house, and just being able to do what I want. 

Yeah, I'm a selfish prick, but I like it. People have been telling me I'd change my mind for about a decade.

In two years, have you told your partner? If not, maybe you should. It could ruin a long term relationship if you lie and string her along for a few more years. Whilst still a minority, I think there is a higher proportion (than previous generations) of other woman you will find share your lack of desire for a family.

[A'Villan]

What do you think is an ethical time frame to tell someone you're seeing that you've been diagnosed as schizophrenic?

I've just been trusting my intuition on who will react well, neutrally or poorly and so far so good. The common response is, "You? No way." "Never would have guessed." etc.

But that's with relationships in general and not women that I am dating. I'm not particularly worried about revealing it, despite it being likely to make some women think twice.

I just think it's something they should know, so I don't have to hide my past and we can enjoy a relationship that has honesty and integrity as a foundation.