Chindie Posted May 5, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 5, 2011 I agree that No today will mean I will be well into middle age before it's even thought of again, if at all. The same would be true of a Yes, but I think a Yes suggests a breaking of a dam of change, while a No locks the bolts, not to be thought of again for quite some time. And given that No will romp home tonight, I guess thats that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 surely if the Irish have taught us anything it's that No really means Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 surely if the Irish have taught us anything it's that No really means Yes:-) Maybe Jim from Vicar of Dibley would be a good one for any canvassing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 ...This isn't a vote on electoral reform, it's a vote on if we want AV, that we don't want AV doesn't say we don't want reform. Voting in AV though sets the process back because no way are they going to pay out twice for changing voting systems. That's not the way it seems to be playing. Tories are utterly against any change of any kind. If we ever get a totally tory gov't then no change ever, under their watch. labour were split on the small reform of AV. Their leader has said if No wins, then any future change is off their agenda for a long long time. Without a small change, there cannot be a big change. No to this now, means No to any future proposals of any kind of change for a generation or more. Absolutely. And I think the idea that 'No' will make people angrier and more likely to push for PR is wrong. And besides, unfortunately the politicians set the agenda, especially on issues like these, not the people. It could also be said that better turnout for smaller parties, and greater seat share for the Lib Dems (although not in the short term as they are going to be hammered) will see more people within Westminster who want further change. 'No' just means the big two will continue to rest on their laurels and pass the leadership between them as they have done for almost a century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 5, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sifting through the normal squabbling, I still see no real arguments as to why FPTP is a better system than AV. Turn that on its head and you'll find no compelling arguments for AV either. Unless it's a genuine improvement (which it's not imo) then what is the point of changing just for the sake of it? I can see plenty of arguments for AV. And they all revolve around it being a better system because it's fairer (imo) Whereas the arguments for AV all seem to revolve around "No-one else does it" "it's expensive" and "no one really wants it". I've only seen one decent argument for why FPTP is a better system than AV, and that's that extreme voters will decide elections because it's their votes for the smaller parties that are likely to get distributed. Even if that is a valid point (which I'm not sure it is, as I'd say AV would make it less likely for someone like the BNP to get any sort of result so that counters the argument) there are far more in favour of AV. Again, imo of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Its fairer if you're the Lib Dems and therefore it is not fair on the rest of us who neither like orange or sandals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturdaygig Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Well, I think I got that sorted. I put yes to AV as my first choice and no to AV as my second choice. So I have this one well covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Well after all I've said on here the last few weeks, I changed my mind at the last minute and voted YES. Reasoning, not sure really as the system change will make little difference but in some respects I don't object to AV, its better for a constituency based house for sure. It's political parties being elected to a constituency based house that I really object to and in my ideal world, I'd use AV for a constituency based house with no party representation. I'd leave the parties to fight it out in a party based house elected on PR. That and the NO campaign actually got on my tits that much with its ridiculously pathetic scaremongering bollocks, it made me want to vote against them. I also realised either way it'll change **** all and the next time we get a referendum on this will be past my life expectancy, regardless of todays result. Voted yes as well. It was mainly the crap and cynical "no" campaign that swayed me into voting yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I voted 'Yes', despite how badly the advertisement campaign was handled which has resulted in a falsely drawn-out opposing campaign that appeals to the masses more convincingly being set to win. If the campaign was based on how effectively each side has handled their campaigns, 'No' would win hands down. I think most of the people who went and looked at the facts properly would have voted 'Yes', but of course Joe Bloggs ain't got time for that, which is why Clegg & Co will fail miserably and successfully sabotage the opportunity of a lifetime - even if AV is the best of a bad pair. Has anybody seen this by the way, if you haven't voted yet, watch this first: Million times better than any 'Yes' advert, and all it does is show the facts without being incredibly pretentious about the nation's level of understanding of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Well, I think I got that sorted. I put yes to AV as my first choice and no to AV as my second choice. So it have this one well covered. nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I agree that No today will mean I will be well into middle age before it's even thought of again, if at all. The same would be true of a Yes, but I think a Yes suggests a breaking of a dam of change, while a No locks the bolts, not to be thought of again for quite some time. And given that No will romp home tonight, I guess thats that.I don't like it, but for the above reasons I vote YES. Alas NO will probably win, so that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I voted YES. I think AV is rubbish but if the NOs succeed then any chance of a more proportional voting system will not happen for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ended up working away without much notice, so for the first time I can remember, didn't vote. Anyway, the question was rigged by the politico's. Why was there no third option: 3: we are interested in change but not the one offered, so go away and come back with another option, not just this crappy little 'choice' between two poor systems. Oh, and whilst you're at it, add the option 'none of the above' to all voting forms so we can exercise our right to vote without having to endorse someone from a list of four party affiliated cretins. right, I'm off down stairs for a couple of pints, then back up here to explore the outer reaches of the interweb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 i didnt vote either, im 26 and iirc its the 1st time ive not voted, moved house and im not registered or something or other what the gf told me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I voted Yes on AV I think the fringe parties need a presence to mix up the house a bit. Got to be careful what you wish for though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 went yes but i know it won't win. looking at poll results coming in, seems like the lib dems are pretty much screwed, so no more party and ergo no more voting for me in elections for the considerable future. How utterly engaged I feel :/ REFORM YOU FUCKNUTS, REFORM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 looking at poll results coming in, seems like the lib dems are pretty much screwed, so no more party and ergo no more voting for me in elections for the considerable future. How utterly engaged I feel Yeah, it was a spoilt ballot paper for me last night, there really is not a single party I feel I can vote for now, which is a very sad state of affairs. BIAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 6, 2011 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 6, 2011 Well the four of us went to vote last night and all voted Labour. It was previously a LibDem ward, so it will be interesting to see what happens. My bet is the Tory will get it. Leeds results not yet in ATM. Our AV votes cancelled each other out, along generational lines - me the and the missus voted NO, the girls voted YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 you have brought up some fine intelligent girls there Mike. A Yes and 2 Greens from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Not looking good for the shite AV system so far. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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