Villan_of_oz Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: We don’t speak about those pair in off topic, mate… But seeing as you’ve mentioned it, that Buendia is crap! So is Coutinho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: So is Coutinho? Nah, just too injured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 It was a great test and England was leading right up until the last ball, so feels like a lost opportunity. At 8 down I thought we had in the bag but wasn't to be. In hindsight maybe the declaration was not a good idea but that is the philosophy of the side being proactive. A massive win for the Aussies to start the series. Quite a few injury concerns for the quick turnaround for the next test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Sure, the declaration on day one probably cost England the defeat but it didn’t cost England the victory. The only reason England almost won the game was because of the declaration, had they not declared when they did it wouldn’t have been so close, it would have more likely been a draw, which as we know, means nothing to Stokes and this England team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted June 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2023 I guess because I'm not partisan when it comes to cricket, I thought it was a fantastic test match. The fact that this England team seem to want to entertain as a priority is a huge boon to the game. I get that if you've skin in the game, there's probably a few things that might frustrate but what a fantastic advert for the five day format. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Tbf, if the bowlers could have removed Lyon and Hazlewood in 12 overs which should be a breeze then the declaration would have been the correct decision. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I personally think they should have got much closer to the wicket and tried bouncing them out. The one or two overs they did that, we looked much more threatening. But it doesn't matter, we lost. Onto Lords! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Stoked to have come away with that one. If that’s what we’ve got to look forward to over the next 4 tests, it’s going to be one hell of a series. Edited June 21, 2023 by Hornso 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Sure, the declaration on day one probably cost England the defeat but it didn’t cost England the victory. The only reason England almost won the game was because of the declaration, had they not declared when they did it wouldn’t have been so close, it would have more likely been a draw, which as we know, means nothing to Stokes and this England team. I’m not so sure - let’s say England add another 50+ runs in first innings, and then hang on to more catches in Aus first innings. Go into second innings with ~100 lead. Hit out hard and then you’re in position to aggressively declare. All ifs buts and maybes, but Day 1 first innings with your best batsman still in, and ball doing **** all, is a truly bizarre time to declare. Yes we surprised the Aussie openers (altho with 8 wickets down they’d have been expecting to bat soon anyway) but it was hardly bringing them into a batter’s nightmare. If anything it was a nice spell to warm up and get their eye in. I do also agree with @lapal_fanthough that Aus got very lucky having that brief spell of heavy swing under the thunder clouds that saw off a decent chunk of our top order in the second. What was strange about this test was how the usual day by day order of batting vs bowling conditions, new ball v old ball, etc just didn’t play out. The game seemed to switch completely randomly from batter friendly most of the time to occasionally very bowler friendly… in a way that was impossible to plan for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2023 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Sure, the declaration on day one probably cost England the defeat but it didn’t cost England the victory. The only reason England almost won the game was because of the declaration, had they not declared when they did it wouldn’t have been so close, it would have more likely been a draw, which as we know, means nothing to Stokes and this England team. Missed chances cost the game, IMO. Plenty to improve on there. Plus Mo’s injury didn’t help 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2023 Ordinarily a 1-0 lead in an Ashes series is a really big one - but I'd have to say, looking at this test, I don't see many draws on the horizon - it might not be quite as disastrous as in previous eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Ordinarily a 1-0 lead in an Ashes series is a really big one - but I'd have to say, looking at this test, I don't see many draws on the horizon - it might not be quite as disastrous as in previous eras. Yes I wouldn't be at all surprised if England won the next one. Selection is key. We can't carry injured players. If stokes can't bowl fine but it makes us a bowler light. So might be an idea to drop one of the top 3 and move Stokes to 3 as Root doesn't like batting there and bring woakes into the team as a bowling all-rounder and Wood for Anderson. Can't really judge Moeen because of his finger so if that heals in time for the 2nd test I would stick with him for now Edited June 21, 2023 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: If stokes can't bowl fine but it makes us a bowler light. So might be an idea to drop one of the top 3 and move Stokes to 3 as Root doesn't like batting there and bring woakes into the team as a bowling all-rounder and Wood for Anderson. I'd be a bit concerned about moving Root down the order as he'll run out of partners, but completely agree on the other stuff. Is it heresy to suggest Stokes might be a bit of a weak link at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I think the Bairstow and Mo selections backfired in the end, Bairstow's movement didn't look right and Mo's finger not coping should really have been foreseen having not bowled in red ball cricket for so long. The problem with the declaration for me was that I think the 'put them in for x overs tonight to get a couple of wickets' idea is overrated. Even then it was a really tight match and really good to watch so can't complain too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I'd be a bit concerned about moving Root down the order as he'll run out of partners, but completely agree on the other stuff. Is it heresy to suggest Stokes might be a bit of a weak link at the moment? No Root stays at 4 and Stokes moves to 3. I don't think Crawley is s test match batsman. His technique is flawed and he only averages 30 in first class cricket. Not convinced by Duckett and jury still out on Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, PaulC said: No Root stays at 4 and Stokes moves to 3. Not sure about Stokes at 3 - he seems to have gone a bit gung ho for the upper order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I love Ben Stokes,he is truly inspirational figure and a brilliant cricketer .Bazball can be brilliantly entertaining but I think at times there are some poor decisions being made. We bowled 210 overs and Australia bowled around 135 overs in the first test.So our bowlers who included a 40 year old,Moeen who hasn’t played test cricket for over 2 years and Stokes who obviously has a serious knee injury bowled 85 more overs in the test match. The declaration and the extremely positive batting means there bowlers do much less overs and our bowlers end up bowling more overs and get much less rest. This will have an influence on this test,would Cummins have been able to bowl as well as he did in the second innnings if he had bowled more in the first innings?It will also have an effect on the other tests. For me Bazball needs to be a bit more intelligent and there might be times to be a bit more pragmatic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 43 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: I love Ben Stokes,he is truly inspirational figure and a brilliant cricketer .Bazball can be brilliantly entertaining but I think at times there are some poor decisions being made. We bowled 210 overs and Australia bowled around 135 overs in the first test.So our bowlers who included a 40 year old,Moeen who hasn’t played test cricket for over 2 years and Stokes who obviously has a serious knee injury bowled 85 more overs in the test match. The declaration and the extremely positive batting means there bowlers do much less overs and our bowlers end up bowling more overs and get much less rest. This will have an influence on this test,would Cummins have been able to bowl as well as he did in the second innnings if he had bowled more in the first innings?It will also have an effect on the other tests. For me Bazball needs to be a bit more intelligent and there might be times to be a bit more pragmatic. Really good points. The concept of Bazball (or whatever you want to call it) as I understand it, is to put the opposition under constant psychological and physical pressure, to disrupt their flow and momentum, and force mistakes. But perversely in this test it served more to give the Australians the easier run of things. It reminded me a bit of Ricky Hatton swarming Floyd Mayweather, who was fully expecting it, and just calmly dispatched him. Having said that, a fitter bowling attack, better keeping, and some slightly more sensible batting at key moments, and it probably would have worked. So I think it’s more about tweaking it than changing tack entirely. I’d be keen to squeeze Foakes in somehow if we can, just think he’s likely saving another 50 odd runs over the course of a match, and his average isn’t 25 worse than whoever he’d replace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 If Stokes was fit to bowl and we had a balanced attack we could maybe afford to tinker with the batting and bring Foakes in but I think we are stuck with Bairstow as keeper for the time being 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 10 hours ago, Only2McInallys said: Moeen who hasn’t played test cricket for over 2 years the selectors should all have handed in their resignation for this decision I get the argument that we have no one else , but Ahemed ( 7 wickets in one test) , Dawson ,Jacks ( 6 wickets in one match) and Bess are all currently playing red ball cricket without getting blisters that stop them from bowling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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