Mazrim Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, Indigo said: I can't see it. How many dual left-footed centre back partnerships are out there? Coaches don't like the idea. I wouldn't want to watch them on Strictly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Obligatory YouTube video I know we looked pretty solid towards the tail end of last season, but to go higher in the league you have to look for more depth and marginal gains. The nearer the top the more marginal gains you need to make to progress. Sadly this means some of our players we love may be replaced or supplemented along the way. Pau Torres is also hitting the prime of his career. He looks comfortable on the ball, and looks to be a better passer with progressive passes than either of our current two first choice Centre backs, this is what I would call a marginal gain. I also think there is still a big doubt over Carlos’ full recovery and getting such a serious injury at his age leaves a big question mark on him for next season. With the additional matches to be played, that is too big a risk in my opinion. Carlos may well prove to be over his injury, or could suffer a set back which then leaves us short should the worst happen. I say if Torres is willing to come, Emery wants him, then why not get him in. Chambers and Hause move on leaving us with 4 quality centre backs we can rely on, and like others have said Konsa can play RB very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted June 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Indigo said: I can't see it. How many dual left-footed centre back partnerships are out there? Coaches don't like the idea. Isn't that simply because there are fewer left footed players than right? Quote If 70% of defenders are right footed (R + L/R) and 30% are left footed, there is a (purely statistical-based) 49% (0.7 * 0.7 * 100%) probability of any 2-CB pairing being both right footed, 42% (2 * 0.7 * 0.3 * 100%) probability of one left footed / one right footed, and 9% (0.3 * 0.3 * 100%) probability of them both being left footed. I don't think it's (usually) a tactical decision. Edited June 6, 2023 by fightoffyour 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Has he got China in is hands 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I never knew the need to have a left and a right foot centre half was ever a thing until I discovered VillaTalk. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said: The drop off in quality after Mings Konsa and Carlos is massive, this would be great. We hardly used our 3rd choice centre back last season. Chambers made 2 starts all season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Yes, please! He's a very different profile to all our other central defenders and is a better passer than all of them combined. Mings is one of the best CBs in Europe in Europe at winning aerial duels but he's not a great passer of the ball. Torres is one of the best in Europe at passing the ball but isn't great in the air. You'd imagine Emery would rotate them out depending on the opposition, or heaven forbid, figure out how to play them together, or play a back 3 of Torres, Mings, and Carlos. I 100% want this to happen for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Just now, Zatman said: We hardly used our 3rd choice centre back last season. Chambers made 2 starts all season Because they were usually calamitous appearances by him. He's way too slow to play a high line and got caught out a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Isn't that simply because there are fewer left footed players than right? If 70% of defenders are right footed (R + L/R) and 30% are left footed, there is a (purely statistical-based) 49% (0.7 * 0.7 * 100%) probability of any 2-CB pairing being both right footed, 42% (2 * 0.7 * 0.3 * 100%) probability of one left footed / one right footed, and 9% (0.3 * 0.3 * 100%) probability of them both being left footed. I don't think it's a tactical decision. I think it largely is, have seen many coaches, scouts etc that would attest to it. Particularly in recent seasons there's been an added emphasis from a lot of coaches in having a good right-left balance at CB, but if not there are at least a lot of right-footed players that are comfortable on their "wrong" other side. The same does not really go for left-footed players which is why the only examples I can even really think of two of them playing together are as a result of injury or suspension to other defenders or as part of a back 3. Edited June 6, 2023 by Indigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, KMitch said: Because they were usually calamitous appearances by him. He's way too slow to play a high line and got caught out a lot. Its more the fact we also didn't need a 4th centre back especially one who is not a guaranteed starter plus another 28 million centre back who isn't a guaranteed starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted June 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Indigo said: I think it largely is, have seen many coaches, scouts etc that would attest to it. Particularly in recent seasons there's been an added emphasis from a lot of coaches in having a good right-left balance at CB, but if not there are at least a lot of right-footed players that are comfortable on their "wrong" other side. The same does not really go for left-footed players which is why the only examples I can even think of two of them playing together are as a result of injury or suspension to other defenders. I edited my post already to include a "(usually)" - but since there are fewer left footed players then there are an even smaller subset of elite left footed players, so of course there are a yet smaller subset who are comfortable on the wrong side. Plus because there are simply more right-footed players you are less likely to ever find out if a left-footed player is comfortable on the wrong side because it's more likely there is another right-footed played to step in. I do agree that modern coaches especially would prefer a balance, but I don't think it would (usually) prevent the 2 best available CB options being played together or indeed being purchased knowing that that would be the situation. Time may tell I guess. Mings is our best CB (from what we have seen last season at least). Torres might be better than Mings and is presumably regarded more highly than Carlos if we are actually interested. For me, that means Torres and Mings would be the pair. This also gives us 2 right footers and 2 left footers, just that the best 2 are both left footed. Finally, it's all a bit harsh on Carlos who suffered a bad injury and hasn't had chance to force his way back in. But what can you do. Edited June 6, 2023 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its more the fact we also didn't need a 4th centre back especially one who is not a guaranteed starter plus another 28 million centre back who isn't a guaranteed starter Now add another 10+ games to next season's work load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 How about this for a back line...... Mings Torres Carlos Konsa Mings is quite pacey and used to play as an attacking left back quite a lot, with Konsa being that right sided for defensive full back. Plus the height in the team.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Now add another 10+ games to next season's work load. Yes we have Carlos back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Just now, DeadlyDirk said: How about this for a back line...... Mings Torres Carlos Konsa Mings is quite pacey and used to play as an attacking left back quite a lot, with Konsa being that right sided for defensive full back. Plus the height in the team.... You are Tony Pulis? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Just now, Zatman said: You are Tony Pulis? Dammit, I've been found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: Yes we have Carlos back He's played 25 minutes of first team football since August 2022. I know we all hope he will pick up where he left off, but that might not be the case. Edit. And he's been available for selection since 12th March but was brought on only once for 25 mins. Edited June 6, 2023 by HKP90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its more the fact we also didn't need a 4th centre back especially one who is not a guaranteed starter plus another 28 million centre back who isn't a guaranteed starter What if we we got a good offer for Konsa this window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Zatman said: We hardly used our 3rd choice centre back last season. Chambers made 2 starts all season 57 games West Ham have played this season, we’ll be looking to play the same or more hopefully next season too. Mings and Konsa can’t play all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, DeadlyDirk said: How about this for a back line...... Mings Torres Carlos Konsa Mings is quite pacey and used to play as an attacking left back quite a lot, with Konsa being that right sided for defensive full back. Plus the height in the team.... Mings is not a left back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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