GlobalVillan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, Leeroy said: Spurs have got as much chance as us of getting top 4 and that's probably being generous. Yeah they aren't likely to get anywhere near it tbh. It's the Sky 6 but with Newcastle replacing Tottenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 10 hours ago, AVFCDAN said: Anyone hoping we will be in the top 4 next season is going to be sorely dissapointed. Newcastle only fluked it this year because a few teams normally there underperformed. 6th will be a success for us. It’s really up to us, get above 71 points and you’ll mostly be there. And apart from City, I can’t say a team is guaranteed Top 4. I guess Liverpool will have a chance to compete for the league, but again nothing to guarantee. I usually say aim high, expect realistic. Last season I was arguing with a lot of Villa friend (even during Gerrard days), that we need points, and hoping the top teams to lose, to atleast has a chance for Europe. Some were laughing, but look what happened. I remember the same in our 10 wins run in the Championship and the survival season. We shall aim as high as we can and say where it takes us to, if we won our first 5 games (which is unlikely), and we found ourselves first, then built on that, shall we just say we’re not up to it? Just continue winning and see where are you? That’s what a relegation threat team Leicester did when they won it. Just play for the maximum amount of points needed and see where it takes you. Begin with aiming for first, expect Top 7. If you ended somewhere in between then it’s an achievement. Then there are some variables such as LC, FA, UECL. All could decide whats could be a good season for Aston Villa. Think first of Newcastle game, then take it one at a time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) Can we all stop saying top 4 and say top 5 please or top 8. England would have got the extra place in 6 of the last 7 seasons under the new rules. So 5 CL, 2 EL, 1 ECL Edited June 29, 2023 by CVByrne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 With the signing of Torres now looking likely, I feel like we've probably got one of the strongest sets of centre backs in the league. So I'm now wondering position by position, where does our squad rank compared to the other top teams that we are likely to be competing with for european and potentially a CL place? I feel like there's probably a group of 9 teams in contention: us plus City, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle and Brighton. So how does our squad now compare? Goalkeeper - Top 4 Martinez surely puts us near the top of this list, in competition with Ederson, Alisson, Pope and perhaps Ramsdale. Don't think any other sides come close. In terms of back up, most other sides have not always reliable vets or young prospects, no side has two standout keepers. Right back - 8th/9th We're near the bottom of this list mostly because right now we only have Cash. If we can sign someone at least on par with him this summer it might get us to the middle of the pack, but most teams have at least two good options here and a very strong first choice. Brighton with Veltman and Lamptey the only side i'd put down with us right now. Left back - Top 3 Much stronger on the left side with Moreno and Digne. Up with Arsenal (Zinchenko/Tierney) and Liverpool (Robertson/Tsimikas). Maybe only Utd (Shaw/Malacia) and Chelsea (Chilwell/Cucarella) come close otherwise. Centre back - 3rd to 5th City probably win this one with Dias, Akanji, Stones, Laporte and Ake. Utd have a decent five in Martinez, Varane, Bailly, Maguire and Lindelof. Otherwise, signing Torres and Carlos hopefully recovering to his best gives us four very good options that not many other teams have. Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea potentially have a solid four, but all have issues with injuries or players either past their peak or yet to reach it. Centre mid (6s/8s) - 4th/5th Arsenal have ridiculous depth here and with Rice on the way to add to Partey, Odegaard, Xhaka, Jorginho are very strong too. City have incredible strength with Rodri, Kovacic, De Bruyne and Phillips, though are a little light after that. Liverpool have good quality and a great addition in Mac Allister but are ageing. Utd good strength and depth too. I reckon we are somewhere in the middle of this, Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey all excellent and still improving, McGinn and Tielemans potentially at peak. Dendoncker a solid back up piece. 10s, wingers and strikers - 8th/9th Not sure if we are better than any side except maybe Brighton in this area. Watkins the best for us and tbf gets a decent goal return. After that we are inconsistent with Buendia, Bailey, Traore or potential only in Duran and Archer. Biggest area we need to improve on this summer and even then we'd be struggling to overtake even one or two more teams in this regard. Overall then, I think we have an incredible base to build a top 4/5 side, but are severely lacking in forward areas compared to the competition and have a long way to go to catch some of these other sides up. Anyone agree/disagree with any of these rankings and where we likely sit overall in the CL race? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 minute ago, tomsky_11 said: With the signing of Torres now looking likely, I feel like we've probably got one of the strongest sets of centre backs in the league. So I'm now wondering position by position, where does our squad rank compared to the other top teams that we are likely to be competing with for european and potentially a CL place? I feel like there's probably a group of 9 teams in contention: us plus City, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle and Brighton. So how does our squad now compare? Goalkeeper - Top 4 Martinez surely puts us near the top of this list, in competition with Ederson, Alisson, Pope and perhaps Ramsdale. Don't think any other sides come close. In terms of back up, most other sides have not always reliable vets or young prospects, no side has two standout keepers. Right back - 8th/9th We're near the bottom of this list mostly because right now we only have Cash. If we can sign someone at least on par with him this summer it might get us to the middle of the pack, but most teams have at least two good options here and a very strong first choice. Brighton with Veltman and Lamptey the only side i'd put down with us right now. Left back - Top 3 Much stronger on the left side with Moreno and Digne. Up with Arsenal (Zinchenko/Tierney) and Liverpool (Robertson/Tsimikas). Maybe only Utd (Shaw/Malacia) and Chelsea (Chilwell/Cucarella) come close otherwise. Centre back - 3rd to 5th City probably win this one with Dias, Akanji, Stones, Laporte and Ake. Utd have a decent five in Martinez, Varane, Bailly, Maguire and Lindelof. Otherwise, signing Torres and Carlos hopefully recovering to his best gives us four very good options that not many other teams have. Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea potentially have a solid four, but all have issues with injuries or players either past their peak or yet to reach it. Centre mid (6s/8s) - 4th/5th Arsenal have ridiculous depth here and with Rice on the way to add to Partey, Odegaard, Xhaka, Jorginho are very strong too. City have incredible strength with Rodri, Kovacic, De Bruyne and Phillips, though are a little light after that. Liverpool have good quality and a great addition in Mac Allister but are ageing. Utd good strength and depth too. I reckon we are somewhere in the middle of this, Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey all excellent and still improving, McGinn and Tielemans potentially at peak. Dendoncker a solid back up piece. 10s, wingers and strikers - 8th/9th Not sure if we are better than any side except maybe Brighton in this area. Watkins the best for us and tbf gets a decent goal return. After that we are inconsistent with Buendia, Bailey, Traore or potential only in Duran and Archer. Biggest area we need to improve on this summer and even then we'd be struggling to overtake even one or two more teams in this regard. Overall then, I think we have an incredible base to build a top 4/5 side, but are severely lacking in forward areas compared to the competition and have a long way to go to catch some of these other sides up. Anyone agree/disagree with any of these rankings and where we likely sit overall in the CL race? Newcastle's centre mid looks good assuming they get Tonali. Guimaraes and Joelinton (particularly the latter to be honest) were immense this season; that aggression is what contributed to Newcastle doing so well. You could also argue for their centre back pairing - Botman and Schar were very solid. Their defence conceded 33 goals last season; the same as Man City and at least 10 fewer than anyone else. I also think it's a bit strange to rate right backs/left backs. We don't really play with one. We have a loosely right-sided player and a left-winger backed up by "a defence" and "a midfield". Moreno looks so good because he's an absolute threat in the attacking sense - he'd be nowhere near the same player being asked to play as, for example, Shaw. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we're in the hunt for CL football - but it's not impossible. It's exciting that we're able to even vaguely consider ourselves in the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, bobzy said: Newcastle's centre mid looks good assuming they get Tonali. Guimaraes and Joelinton (particularly the latter to be honest) were immense this season; that aggression is what contributed to Newcastle doing so well. You could also argue for their centre back pairing - Botman and Schar were very solid. Their defence conceded 33 goals last season; the same as Man City and at least 10 fewer than anyone else. Newcastle don't have the depth (or quality IMO) we have in our midfield. Joelinton I'd expect to be used futher forward once they start to add players they need in this area. Botman and Schar have been good but again they have very little depth. 26 minutes ago, bobzy said: I also think it's a bit strange to rate right backs/left backs. We don't really play with one. We have a loosely right-sided player and a left-winger backed up by "a defence" and "a midfield". Moreno looks so good because he's an absolute threat in the attacking sense - he'd be nowhere near the same player being asked to play as, for example, Shaw. I think it fine to rate the full backs despite the difference in styles, because a judgement can be made on how good they are at what they are asked to do in that position. I think all sides in that group of 9 tend to play a back 4, so all are nominally naming right and left backs. Some are utilised more attacking or defensively than others. I don't think many sides have two left backs of the level of experience and ability that we do, whereas on the right Cash is decent but we have no other senior options there apart from converted centre backs, where as a number of side have two quality options on the right like we have on the left. The difference in styles isn't the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Drunk at a wparty seeing wedding and I’ve just put £10 on Villa to win the league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 With all these links to the likes of Torres, Chiesa, Diaby and Kessie etc does anyone else get the feeling that Unai thinks he can build a team to win this league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Villarocker said: With all these links to the likes of Torres, Chiesa, Diaby and Kessie etc does anyone else get the feeling that Unai thinks he can build a team to win this league? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Villarocker said: With all these links to the likes of Torres, Chiesa, Diaby and Kessie etc does anyone else get the feeling that Unai thinks he can build a team to win this league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Villarocker said: With all these links to the likes of Torres, Chiesa, Diaby and Kessie etc does anyone else get the feeling that Unai thinks he can build a team to win this league? Na, we have to chill a a bit All this speculation is fun and exciting but we need to keep in touch with reality The title is way too far a reach and for the mega rich (and corrupt) and steady progress is much better than a “ride or die” approach. We haven’t actually signed any attacking players yet and may not land any of the names that have been thrown around. I would not rule out an “attempt” at breaking into that top 4 but I think our aim is to establish ourselves as a top 6 team. I think the owners and club are realistic about what we can achieve too… and not place any unrealistic demands at Unai’s feet. No point finishing high in the league once then falling away, we want to consistently be in the mix and never touch that lower half of the table again… consistently play in Europa League for instance too… we will become one of the stronger teams over time if we have a clear and measure strategy and approach… Let’s see where we are toward the end of the window… Step by step, cool, calm and collected. That’s our manager. Edited July 13, 2023 by Jas10 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 12 hours ago, Jas10 said: Na, we have to chill a a bit All this speculation is fun and exciting but we need to keep in touch with reality The title is way too far a reach and for the mega rich (and corrupt) and steady progress is much better than a “ride or die” approach. We haven’t actually signed any attacking players yet and may not land any of the names that have been thrown around. I would not rule out an “attempt” at breaking into that top 4 but I think our aim is to establish ourselves as a top 6 team. I think the owners and club are realistic about what we can achieve too… and not place any unrealistic demands at Unai’s feet. No point finishing high in the league once then falling away, we want to consistently be in the mix and never touch that lower half of the table again… consistently play in Europa League for instance too… we will become one of the stronger teams over time if we have a clear and measure strategy and approach… Let’s see where we are toward the end of the window… Step by step, cool, calm and collected. That’s our manager. It will take 4 or 5 years of European qualification (supported with a decent run in those competitions) before either Newcastle or us would be considered established top 6 teams. How many seasons did Leicester finish in the Top 5 and yet they didn't succeed in establishing a top 7. A team capable of finishing in the top 6 or even a team that finishes in the top 6 - is still not the same as being a "Top 6 team". It's more likely that it becomes a Top 8 first - unless of course Chelsea completely implode (how long can they afford not to be competing in the CL considering the number of players, wages and contract structures that they have in place). I hope we don't all get too obsessed with this Top 4 (surely with the extra CL place this is now redundant anyway), Top 6 stuff. I still think we could finish 8th next season and yet have taken a step forward from this season (competing for a full season, taking matches to the top teams and retaining more possession against them, etc). Whereas it feels like we are already in danger of suggesting that anything less than 6th is a failure. I think we are in a great position to re-establish ourselves as a great club - we shouldn't put that as risk by putting too much pressure on short term success. Yes let's be ambitious and try to finish as high as we can - but let's also be sensible and remember that it has been a long time since we qualified for Europe, that Chelsea and Spurs have had much longer to build their squads, etc and that finishing above them would still be an achievement. We all dislike the entitlement expressed by the Sly 6 so let's not fall into the same trap after 1 season in which we were pretty / very good for 60% of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Villarocker said: With all these links to the likes of Torres, Chiesa, Diaby and Kessie etc does anyone else get the feeling that Unai thinks he can build a team to win this league? All of those players could get us top 6 with a bit of luck, not top of the league! Edited July 13, 2023 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, allani said: It will take 4 or 5 years of European qualification (supported with a decent run in those competitions) before either Newcastle or us would be considered established top 6 teams. How many seasons did Leicester finish in the Top 5 and yet they didn't succeed in establishing a top 7. A team capable of finishing in the top 6 or even a team that finishes in the top 6 - is still not the same as being a "Top 6 team". It's more likely that it becomes a Top 8 first - unless of course Chelsea completely implode (how long can they afford not to be competing in the CL considering the number of players, wages and contract structures that they have in place). I hope we don't all get too obsessed with this Top 4 (surely with the extra CL place this is now redundant anyway), Top 6 stuff. I still think we could finish 8th next season and yet have taken a step forward from this season (competing for a full season, taking matches to the top teams and retaining more possession against them, etc). Whereas it feels like we are already in danger of suggesting that anything less than 6th is a failure. I think we are in a great position to re-establish ourselves as a great club - we shouldn't put that as risk by putting too much pressure on short term success. Yes let's be ambitious and try to finish as high as we can - but let's also be sensible and remember that it has been a long time since we qualified for Europe, that Chelsea and Spurs have had much longer to build their squads, etc and that finishing above them would still be an achievement. We all dislike the entitlement expressed by the Sly 6 so let's not fall into the same trap after 1 season in which we were pretty / very good for 60% of it. Hey! I was trying to calm down the last guy and you come for me! I just meant that it would likely be our intent and I aim. I’ve no intention of putting any pressure on or having wild/unrealistic expectations… Like I said, steady progress, step by step. I just don’t think Unai or NSWE would be satisfied if we weren’t at least attempting to reach that level… I think we will get there eventually too… I love Unai, mostly for the style of play he has implemented and the way he has improved our players. He carries himself with so much class or dignity too. It would take something almighty or catastrophic for me to even feel any disappointment in him, I hope he is with us for a loooooong time and builds a real legacy… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted July 14, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2023 On 01/07/2023 at 21:59, Dodgyknees said: Drunk at a wparty seeing wedding and I’ve just put £10 on Villa to win the league I've done this sober. Odds will come tumbling down with our signings and start to the season! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Its ours to throw away to be fair. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 7 hours ago, allani said: It will take 4 or 5 years of European qualification (supported with a decent run in those competitions) before either Newcastle or us would be considered established top 6 teams. How many seasons did Leicester finish in the Top 5 and yet they didn't succeed in establishing a top 7. A team capable of finishing in the top 6 or even a team that finishes in the top 6 - is still not the same as being a "Top 6 team". It's more likely that it becomes a Top 8 first - unless of course Chelsea completely implode (how long can they afford not to be competing in the CL considering the number of players, wages and contract structures that they have in place). I hope we don't all get too obsessed with this Top 4 (surely with the extra CL place this is now redundant anyway), Top 6 stuff. I still think we could finish 8th next season and yet have taken a step forward from this season (competing for a full season, taking matches to the top teams and retaining more possession against them, etc). Whereas it feels like we are already in danger of suggesting that anything less than 6th is a failure. I think we are in a great position to re-establish ourselves as a great club - we shouldn't put that as risk by putting too much pressure on short term success. Yes let's be ambitious and try to finish as high as we can - but let's also be sensible and remember that it has been a long time since we qualified for Europe, that Chelsea and Spurs have had much longer to build their squads, etc and that finishing above them would still be an achievement. We all dislike the entitlement expressed by the Sly 6 so let's not fall into the same trap after 1 season in which we were pretty / very good for 60% of it. I agree with your post but how frustrating is it that Newcastle being taken over means that they are now treated as being part of a top 7 by the media? To your point, Leicester won the league and finished in the top 6 repeatedly without ever being referred to in the same vane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 7 hours ago, Jas10 said: Hey! I was trying to calm down the last guy and you come for me! I just meant that it would likely be our intent and I aim. I’ve no intention of putting any pressure on or having wild/unrealistic expectations… Like I said, steady progress, step by step. I just don’t think Unai or NSWE would be satisfied if we weren’t at least attempting to reach that level… I think we will get there eventually too… I love Unai, mostly for the style of play he has implemented and the way he has improved our players. He carries himself with so much class or dignity too. It would take something almighty or catastrophic for me to even feel any disappointment in him, I hope he is with us for a loooooong time and builds a real legacy… Haha - yeah I know. I wasn't really posting at / to you - it was more a general observation. I think we can want to challenge for a top 4 or top 6 position but it really pissed me off when Liverpool were talking last season about how they should be Top 5 because they are Liverpool - it just came across as an entitlement thing which annoyed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, JPJCB said: I agree with your post but how frustrating is it that Newcastle being taken over means that they are now treated as being part of a top 7 by the media? To your point, Leicester won the league and finished in the top 6 repeatedly without ever being referred to in the same vane I'm not sure we're quite at a Top 7 yet - but yeah I do find it slightly odd that Newcastle have been embraced so quickly and that the Saudi connections have been brushed to the side more than I expected. There does seem to be this idea that Newcastle are everyone's second team - which I've never quite understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 48 minutes ago, allani said: I'm not sure we're quite at a Top 7 yet - but yeah I do find it slightly odd that Newcastle have been embraced so quickly and that the Saudi connections have been brushed to the side more than I expected. There does seem to be this idea that Newcastle are everyone's second team - which I've never quite understood. I’d go further and say that it’s because of the Saudi connections that they are treated that way rather than in spite of them. If it had been a more standard takeover no one would bat an eyelid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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