Anything11 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 hours ago, villabromsgrove said: I would have left the captaincy with Mings, but I haven't a clue what goes on behind the scenes at BMH. After thinking about the news for a few hours I can see that a change was needed, and now is the right time for it. I know that from a fans perspective I was concerned about the regular on field complacency that was obvious at certain times in many matches. We often looked like a soft touch. That has to change and if SG thinks that he needs a compete change of hierarchy on the pitch and around the club then it's his call. Mings struggled with his CB partner giving him less than adequate support on many occasions. He needs to up his game and regain his focus if he's to keep his position. We gave away soft goals and he was complicit in some of those situations. McGinn had an equally worrying time with his wayward passing causing a lot of turnover ball, but it appears that SG feels that extra responsibility might be the focus he needs to up his game in this coming season. At his best he's a real asset. Martinez as vice captain means that McGinn isn't guaranteed a start every game unless his form deserves it, because Emi will be on the pitch all the time ready to take the armband. Ashley Young as club captain is a top appointment. He's a leader by example, an old head who's seen and done it all. Well respected and a great lifter of spirits. A perfect choice. Gerrard has clearly lost his patience with what he probably sees as a malaise afflicting the match day team. He's not trying to be popular, he's shaking things up to get a positive reaction. He will live or die by results this season, so he's obviously determined to do so on his own terms with his own leaders. Good luck to him. Great post especially that last bit. Mings the man is amazing and a very inspiring individual. He is a great footballer however he clearly has a few too many mistakes in him and very much struggles at times with our progressive play. I suspect him hoofing the ball away repeatedly hasn't sat well with management for some time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 It’s a surprise more than anything, probably more likely due to the timing and sudden announcement… I do believe that it further guarantees McGinn’s place in the side (not comparable to Henderson situation for at least a couple of reasons) and that is a concern… The main getaway for me is how harsh it seems on Ty, not even being given the club captaincy role (why TF is Young getting it?)… but none of us have any idea as to the reality of the situation or what discussion have taken place… who even knows if, for example, Ty had wanted less responsibility or not? No one can really say with any conviction or accuracy… If he improves after this, then great. He is and has been such an important player for us and has a lot of attributes. He just needs to be more focussed and concentrated so… maybe this will help? What a classy message from him too… just further shows his credentials as a worthwhile captain, leader or representative of the club… Another observation is that… we don’t really have many leaders in the team/squad… our options seemed limited… After reflecting on this and getting over the initial disappointment/surprise… I guess all there is to say, is that if this decision somehow raises John and Ty’s games, then we will all be delighted with it. All we can do is hope… we have zero control over what goes on at the club and our opinions affect nothing so… as fans…we can just hope and wish for the best. I just hope all this means is that McGinn is favoured for a more attacking role in midfield with JJ being the understudy who can come on in the 2nd halves of games or rotate in as required. It’s easy to forget how young he is but, I won’t lie, I prefer him to John and he is our future. Maybe JJ will succeed McGinn as the starter in the not too distant future and maybe this is not too dissimilar to the Coutinho and Buendia situation either (Emi being primed to take over that prime playmaker mantle from him. I’d rather we just players the pair of them though. So in that context not comparable at all ). I don’t know though, it’s kind of doubtful I guess… But Kamara needs support and if we regularly start with JJ and John… we are going to have difficulties… primarily still struggling to retain and control possession. I’m still hoping for Luiz to be the man for the job at least until we bring in a new player for that role… Ultimately, if John is able to improve and maybe focus on his strengths then that will be of great benefit. Anyone’s opinion on him is pretty meaningless now anyway, he is the main man at the club now and we have to back him. Here’s hoping this all works out for the best… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 This would perhaps signal that there'll be no incoming midfielder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, maqroll said: This would perhaps signal that there'll be no incoming midfielder. I hope not… and am not allowing myself to think that… not yet anyway. Hope we bring in a more “defensively sound” player who can bring physicality and quality on the ball. A different profile to the likes of JJ, McGinn and Sasnson which is what we need. Will really help Kamara… Not more of the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I can't recall the captaincy ever being intensely discussed like this. I think it's a function of not only the increased interest in Villa, but also the high stakes in play now that we are back in the mix, relevant again and being properly backed by ownership. Expectations are sky high. It's dizzying up here! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Hopefully, Carlos will be ready to take over in his second season after settling, adapting and establishing himself in his first 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLVillan Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 48 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Hopefully, Carlos will be ready to take over in his second season after settling, adapting and establishing himself in his first Carlos is guaranteed of the job if he puts Ben Mee in Row Z when we play Brentford. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) If captain McGinn gets us European football this season it will have been a success. Edited July 28, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, maqroll said: I can't recall the captaincy ever being intensely discussed like this. I think it's a function of not only the increased interest in Villa, but also the high stakes in play now that we are back in the mix, relevant again and being properly backed by ownership. I think also it’s very rare that a high-profile player, an England international and captain of his club, is stripped of the captaincy without there being a big reason for it (other than the manager’s opinion). Other than Chester giving the armband up for JT I can’t remember it happening at Villa. Usually captaincy changes when someone leaves or retires; sometimes when a new player comes in; but very rare that it’s just taken off one player and given to another. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 hours ago, avfc1982am said: Speaks poor English, runs around like a headless chicken and is a lovely bloke. Captain material right there! Just to check, by “speaks poor English” do you mean “has a different accent to me”? Because I’m fairly sure he speaks fluent English… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) This is why it was a difficult decision. In the absence of any obvious candidate, I suppose it makes sense, everyone is droppable and will get dropped/rotated, it’s not uncommon. For practical reasons it has to be a outfield player, and the traits of drive, passion, and English speaking are necessary. I suppose McGinn does tick all but the English speaking requirement. I can’t really argue for anyone strongly so McGinn is probably the best of a bad bunch [given he is the longest serving senior player? I think it does suggest that Mings is very much fighting for his place, he didn’t have the greatest pre-season and has a fight to be a starter. Edited July 28, 2022 by thunderball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 hours ago, villabromsgrove said: I would have left the captaincy with Mings, but I haven't a clue what goes on behind the scenes at BMH. After thinking about the news for a few hours I can see that a change was needed, and now is the right time for it. I know that from a fans perspective I was concerned about the regular on field complacency that was obvious at certain times in many matches. We often looked like a soft touch. That has to change and if SG thinks that he needs a compete change of hierarchy on the pitch and around the club then it's his call. Mings struggled with his CB partner giving him less than adequate support on many occasions. He needs to up his game and regain his focus if he's to keep his position. We gave away soft goals and he was complicit in some of those situations. McGinn had an equally worrying time with his wayward passing causing a lot of turnover ball, but it appears that SG feels that extra responsibility might be the focus he needs to up his game in this coming season. At his best he's a real asset. Martinez as vice captain means that McGinn isn't guaranteed a start every game unless his form deserves it, because Emi will be on the pitch all the time ready to take the armband. Ashley Young as club captain is a top appointment. He's a leader by example, an old head who's seen and done it all. Well respected and a great lifter of spirits. A perfect choice. Gerrard has clearly lost his patience with what he probably sees as a malaise afflicting the match day team. He's not trying to be popular, he's shaking things up to get a positive reaction. He will live or die by results this season, so he's obviously determined to do so on his own terms with his own leaders. Good luck to him. The voice of reason! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLARETANDBLUEFOXY Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I would have preferred Emi but SG knows more about football than I do so I’m going to trust his instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I think the captaincy is a bit of a side note. I don’t know about anyone else but for me it’s the uncertainty it puts on our midfield improvements this year. I for one would have liked us to go out and get a player that could replace McGinn in the first 11, someone like Laimer, Dahoud, de Paul, etc. We may well still do so but giving McGinn the armband throws that up in the air a bit, which is worrying. It may all work out as some posters have suggested but I’m a Villa fan and pessimism is ingrained in me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 If doing this helps to eradicate some of the mistakes from Mings then I'm all for it. Hopefully it will also take some of the hate with it. With a bit of luck it will help McGinn concentrate on not giving the ball away and at least he can now officially rant at the ref about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) I think if you were starting with a blank sheet of paper, McGinn is a no-brainer for captain. He’s obviously popular with the players, communicates well and brings a lot of drive and enthusiasm to the pitch. Is he the man to lift the team when heads are dropping? Time will tell. For me, the most important message from all this is for Mings. When the manager says a change in job responsibilities is a chance for you to concentrate on your own performance, probably time to start keeping a weather eye on the sits vac columns. Edited July 28, 2022 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I currently stand in the "I hope you know what you're doing" camp. I think McGinn holds us back and wanted to see him replaced in the starting XI, which now looks decidedly less likely. I can't help feeling this is going to mean McGinn will be pretty much starting every game in a key position he isn't good enough to play in for a team supposedly chasing top 8 (and yes, perhaps a signal we're not getting a new player). This isn't personal, I just don't think he's committed or mobile enough to cover Kamara in defensive duties, or skillful or productive enough to support the front 3/4. I cannot recall any consistent form since we've been back in the PL to warrant this honour. I know some guys will and do regularly trot out facts and figures which suggests he's unjustly criticised, but I find those stats dubious and at odds with what I see every week with my own eyes: - Doesn't score or create enough. Not even remotely close. - Is easily played through when on defensive duties - Trots around far too often. Noticeably, when we're on the defensive. - Attempts pathetic long range shots too often that miss by miles. - Misplaces passes too often. Often leading to counter attacks he makes little effort in helping thwart. - He is chronically slow. Maybe the slowest Villa midfielder I've ever seen. - Slows our attacks down too often. - Disappears in games. Sometimes several games at a time. Yet appears in the next starting XI - which I would imagine hurts morale of anybody trying to break into the team Now, I'll try to add some plus points as they occur to me, for balance: - Capable of spectacular passes when they do come off. - Can be tenacious when he fancies it. - Draws fouls. - Seems to be a popular character. Ok so the plus column is sparse and I'm sure some of you would add more. I am however, concerned. I don't think he's pushed on since the first month or two of our first season back. He's been part of a midfield that has been easy to cut through for several seasons and Kamara alone will not remedy that. Not only do I think we should buy a better player to replace McGinn, I also think we have better alternatives in the squad already. So yes, this apparent endorsement of McGinn concerns me. I can see a scenario where he plays regardless, and feels ever more undroppable. I also think there's a narrative here of McGinn as a ball of energy of hustling the opposition, and while that happens in isolated periods, its a bit of a myth to say its a characteristic. Is he a leader? Maybe, but not really by example. I don't think this is going to be a decision we look back on with any great fondness, but let's see. I wish him all the best of course and hope he proves me wrong with extreme prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I view the " Club captain " more as an ambassador. Probably reps the club with off field activities, charity etc? It's why I thought Ty would get at least that to be fair. He says he wants to have Mings concentrate on playing, I’d guess that’s why he doesn’t have him as club captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Adam2003 said: Just to check, by “speaks poor English” do you mean “has a different accent to me”? Because I’m fairly sure he speaks fluent English… Are you just being ignorant? Who were those comments about? I'm certain those were about Trez and said in jest/sarcasm and not McGinn. Yes, Trez speaks poor English. I'm certain of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 11 hours ago, lexicon said: My worry about Gerrard is that he's the old school, 'pfm' style of manager - leaving all the technical stuff to the coaching staff while he speaks in platitudes etc. This move does not fill me with confidence. The Tim Sherwood of his managerial generation except Sherwood actually won the Premier League as a player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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