Zatman Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: To me, a move for Conte would be an even bigger " mercenary " move than some already think SG is IMO. I'd prefer a youngish - mid career Manager with a high ceiling, who can grow with the club, and develop genuine affinity for it. Although, we've got a worse squad than Spurs, and aren't in London, so there is less than zero chance it would happen anyway. Conte would be here 2 years but nearly every job he has he has left a solid team for a new manager to build on with the same system Not that he will join or will stay but he has burned his bridges with some of the top teams and some won't take his ego bashing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: To me, a move for Conte would be an even bigger " mercenary " move than some already think SG is IMO. I'd prefer a youngish - mid career Manager with a high ceiling, who can grow with the club, and develop genuine affinity for it. Although, we've got a worse squad than Spurs, and aren't in London, Manchester, or Newcastle, so there is less than zero chance it would happen anyway. More of a Newcastle type signing No, it's not happening in a million years but I wouldn't say he is a mercenary. He justs combusts after the two seasons and the players can't take any more. It's not like Mourinho who IMO just thinks of the payoff when going into a club these days and then employs a scorched earth policy when things start to turn, runing players psychologically before leaving. With Conte he just turns on the board in the end and as Zatman said, Conte always leaves behind a relatively solid foundation. Regarding your second line there, wouldn't we all but looking at the average term length of a PL manager it's fairly unlikely that'll happen. Edited February 24, 2022 by sparrow1988 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, TRO said: Well if you play more, you are wide open to the counter, its a strategic gamble, always is, always has been......Then its down to winning your battles against your opposite number, thats when the tide turns and the initiative won. It comes back to the same place.....The better players can do both, limited players are limited and struggle to do both....but if you buy the wrong players, or inadequate quality, the system, can't always save you. In the game years ago, you attacked and defended as a unit, its not just the modern, game. Its an old chesnut, do you overload the attack or the defence, both will have consequences....its getting the balance right and morphing in transition....that comes back to players as well as systems. Why do all the teams in the league have varying systems?.....if one was right, they would all play it? I made the McLeish quip because it was very much what he would do. More CBs on the pitch wont make you more defensively solid If you scatter them all over the pitch. Playing CBs in the midfield doesn't make you more defensively solid if you leave them isolated to defend midfield alone. You defend with an effective shape. A shape that allows players to support each other and work cohesively as a unit. That is currently what we are lacking. Take any elite PL side and put them in this setup. You will see an equally poor performance compared to their peak. That's how bad this setup is for a PL team. I don't see how it functionally works without an overwhelming talent disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Zatman said: Well no you said Moyes learned his trade in Scotland, he never coached or managed a team in Scotland. Played most of his career in England. As for Scottish coaches that was 30 years ago, Moyes is the only Scottish born manager in the top 2 divisions in England. It wasn’t 30 years ago. I think about 10 years ago there were something like 8 Scottish managers in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: It wasn’t 30 years ago. I think about 10 years ago there were something like 8 Scottish managers in the PL. In the last 10 years the permanent Scottish managers in the Premier League have been Moyes, Ferguson and then it gets juicy with Lambert, Alex Neil, Irvine, Mackey, Clarke and McLeish 8 managers in 10 years and only Moyes is stable and he has had 5 jobs in that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: In the last 10 years the permanent Scottish managers in the Premier League have been Moyes, Ferguson and then it gets juicy with Lambert, Alex Neil, Irvine, Mackey, Clarke and McLeish 8 managers in 10 years and only Moyes is stable and he has had 5 jobs in that time I seem to remember having a conversation with my Scottish soon to be father in law, or father in law already by then that basically was about the large number of Scots who were managing in the PL at the time. The number I had in my head was 8 at that time, which I think was around 2010. I could be wrong on dates and numbers, but you’re right they were of a variable standard, SAF at one end and the likes of MaCleish at the other but at the time they were certainly the trend. Not a trend we had much joy with though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: I'm talking about someone pointing out Moyes never managed there and instead of just admitting you were wrong, you went for "they are still Scottish and learnt the trade there." I just can't take arguments seriously if you can't ever admit you were factually wrong, because it demonstrates an inability to make reasoned decisions. Just because you assume a point doesn’t mean I am wrong. Some have the consensus that Scottish is bad, my point was that good managers have coached in Scotland and been successful elsewhere in Moyes case it was because he was Scottish and proved to be a good manager. I knew Moyes coached at Preston as his first gig, it wasn’t the point I was making you assumed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 hours ago, Zatman said: Well no you said Moyes learned his trade in Scotland, he never coached or managed a team in Scotland. Played most of his career in England. As for Scottish coaches that was 30 years ago, Moyes is the only Scottish born manager in the top 2 divisions in England. The reality is your judging a coaches ability by not getting the outcome you desire. Caning the Scottish league saying they aren’t good enough is saying they can’t produce a quality manager. You piece meal recent history to prove your point because the whole of history says something completely different. Moyes started coaching at Preston, saying he learnt nothing from playing for Celtic and Dunfermline early in his career is silly. The biggest club he played for and won a medal for was in Scotland. Your argument is based on Moyes from Preston to coaching in PL with Everton is ok, but Gerrard winning the title with Rangers and stopping Celtic from winning 10 years in a row is not good enough for Villa? My point is your wrong, you don’t know whether someone can coach or not, your opinion is based on results. My point was you have to be a good manager to win a title no matter where it is and I included Moyes becuase it showed that, no one would have known when appointed by Preston the coach he would become. You use the argument that good coaches don’t come out of Scotland anymore, again it’s just small minded, becuase most people know everything is cyclic, what was old becomes new again and good coaches will come out of scotland again and they probably already have, your narrow vision just hasn’t seen it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 hours ago, QldVilla said: You use the argument that good coaches don’t come out of Scotland anymore, again it’s just small minded, becuase most people know everything is cyclic, what was old becomes new again and good coaches will come out of scotland again and they probably already have, your narrow vision just hasn’t seen it yet. One, name one manager that's developed in the Scottish leagues and gone on to better things in the past 25 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, QldVilla said: but Gerrard winning the title with Rangers and stopping Celtic from winning 10 years in a row is not good enough for Villa? Seriously? This is no more an achievement than Barcelona or Real Madrid winning the title in Spain. He won a two horse race, with one of the two horses. Our board treated him like he’d won the bloody champions league with Rangers! Every single manager that has ever promoted a team from the championship to the premier league has a better CV than him. He may well go on to prove himself a great manager, but my god, he’s done nowhere near enough to deserve a shot at one of the top 10 jobs in the premier league. Let’s not beat about the bush here, if Purslow wasn’t a liverpool man, there’s no way Gerrard would be getting this job on merit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, Thug said: Seriously? This is no more an achievement than Barcelona or Real Madrid winning the title in Spain. He won a two horse race, with one of the two horses. Our board treated him like he’d won the bloody champions league with Rangers! Every single manager that has ever promoted a team from the championship to the premier league has a better CV than him. He may well go on to prove himself a great manager, but my god, he’s done nowhere near enough to deserve a shot at one of the top 10 jobs in the premier league. Let’s not beat about the bush here, if Purslow wasn’t a liverpool man, there’s no way Gerrard would be getting this job on merit. If you want to take a comment out of context, then there’s nothing much to debate. I didn’t want Gerrard appointed to the club, but he is, being Australian I was looking forward to his duels with Postecoglu as I know how good a coach he is, but you would put him in the same basket as Gerrard, because he hasn’t won a title in the right league or hasn’t coached the right national team. They all do the same coaching badges, opportunities ultimately decide their fortune. At the end you don’t know and to sit there and judge managers on what they haven’t done yet, says more about the people who make those judgments. And I say that because if we had won the last two games we wouldn’t be having this conversation, which reverts to the theory that peoples opinions are based on results, not the substance of the individual involved. Quoting Purslow and making statements that you don’t know are true just reflect some of the rubbish being thrown around. There was an interview process and the manger who impressed the most got the job. Spinning it to suit a narrative is just bar stool talk and again you just don’t really know. Gone are the days when you sign a player and they just play, the best managers have intricate game plans and not every player suits that game plan. I’m not saying Gerrard is one of these managers either, but now he is the manager he deserves the time and appoint the players required to carry out that plan, then and only then he can be properly judged on his managerial capability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, QldVilla said: The reality is your judging a coaches ability by not getting the outcome you desire. Caning the Scottish league saying they aren’t good enough is saying they can’t produce a quality manager. You piece meal recent history to prove your point because the whole of history says something completely different. Moyes started coaching at Preston, saying he learnt nothing from playing for Celtic and Dunfermline early in his career is silly. The biggest club he played for and won a medal for was in Scotland. Your argument is based on Moyes from Preston to coaching in PL with Everton is ok, but Gerrard winning the title with Rangers and stopping Celtic from winning 10 years in a row is not good enough for Villa? My point is your wrong, you don’t know whether someone can coach or not, your opinion is based on results. My point was you have to be a good manager to win a title no matter where it is and I included Moyes becuase it showed that, no one would have known when appointed by Preston the coach he would become. You use the argument that good coaches don’t come out of Scotland anymore, again it’s just small minded, becuase most people know everything is cyclic, what was old becomes new again and good coaches will come out of scotland again and they probably already have, your narrow vision just hasn’t seen it yet. I'd say recent results at Aston Villa are speaking volumes about Stevie Gs coaching ability at PL level right now. Nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 We’ve pretty much regressed back to the team we have been for most of 2021 which is a pretty inconsistent one that luckily had a great start to the season during lockdown. We’re not going down but the rest of the season probably won’t be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 18 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Well if he leaves Spurs and becomes available I would part with the 15 million (graphic on a previoius page) a year to bring him here. Sell him the project. I can see Wes convincing him now - "Come on Antonio. You know you want to. We'll even top up the hair implants. What? You think that Mr. Puslow's hair is 100% real? No chance!" As would i. The football isnt great but with these players he really could turn us into a great team. If spurs can get him we can too. We have more ambition, more money.its a exciting project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 talks a good game as usual in the presser. no doubt a training video of the lads looking super sharp and banging in goals left right and centre is just around the corner too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, tomav84 said: talks a good game as usual in the presser. no doubt a training video of the lads looking super sharp and banging in goals left right and centre is just around the corner too Washes over my head now because he always talks a good presser, he’s passionate but he’s also trained how to come across in media interviews. Total respect for him but I know exactly what he’s going to say and he says it well. I don’t need that, I need the talking done on the pitch because the pressers at the moment just feel a little hollow to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Talks a good game but I'd respect him a lot more if we saw the passion and will to win in the players as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Just realised Van Bronckhurst has beaten Dortmund to over 2 legs with Rangers. Giovanni in? Lol Edited February 25, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Watching Rangers against Dortmund last night, offered a few insights into Gerrard's plans for Villa. Dortmund were technically superior but Rangers' high-tempo game unsettled them in the second-half and but for a lousy VAR decision, would have won the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Watching Rangers against Dortmund last night, offered a few insights into Gerrard's plans for Villa. Dortmund were technically superior but Rangers' high-tempo game unsettled them in the second-half and but for a lousy VAR decision, would have won the game. They were playing a formation Gerrard hasn't ever played at Villa. I don't think you can take much from that rangers performance as an example of what Gerrard is trying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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