Steven Gerrard

[Risso]

7 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

Just got back from the game this weekend. It was a whistle stop trip flying from the US on Thursday night, and coming back on Sunday, but it was important to see Deano at Villa park one last time.

My thoughts on the game. It was uninspiring, the atmosphere was flat,  and the performance was decidedly average. Ings coming on changed the game. Until that point I didn't see a lot to choose between the two teams.

Appointing Gerrard was supposed to be for one main reason, to improve performances and ultimately to move up the league. From everything I've seen to date, this has not happened. We have not improved, and  performances are not any better. The differences on Saturday were a Williams slip, and a mistake by the same player not releasing the ball earlier when he's been clipped by Ollie. Other than those two mistakes, there was nothing between the two teams. As I've said previously, we beat poorer teams because we have better players. 

We are a predictable team, and others have worked out how to play against us. I'm concerned because I see something similar to what happened to Sheffield United last year. Once teams have worked you out, and you pretty much don't have a plan B, there's almost no way back. We don't have a player issue, we have a system issue. I'm not convinced we don't have the right players for his system, and suddenly need to spend Millions in the close season. My concern is that the system is flawed, is easily shut down, and other teams have worked out how to completely nullify it.

I'm not convinced this coaching team are good enough after another bang average performance.

BTW, the Villa fans did Deano proud on Saturday. Very respectful, and it bought a lump to my throat. Well done.

Our squad has inconsistency running through it like a stick of rock. Look at last season, destroyed Liverpool 7-2 at home and a good win at Leicester away, then within the space of 3-4 of weeks swe shipped seven at home to Leeds and Southampton. Look at the start of this season, a really good battling away win at Old Trafford, then a spineless 3-2 collapse against Wolves, that set in motion the events that led to Smith's sacking. It's too early to say whether Gerrard will be a success, but I mostly like what I see and I think and hope he will. We absolutely do have a player issue though. Too many of them are too inconsistent, or simply not good enough for where we want to be.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Risso

[IrishVilla10]

12 hours ago, hippo said:

Although not a fan I have to concede that the results so far are enough to keep in a job - and yes results have improved my concerns are what follows:-

(All based on my perception - not facts I accept)

1. I believe we have mostly decent players in the current squad - we start selling our current starters to prem rivals is a red flag imo 

2. I don't like the narrow formation. I don't believe it will work - and even if it does it's very boring 

3. I fear the strategy of buying development players (IE Watkins cash) will be abandoned for more ready made players 

4. I don't believe he will give extended game time to our youth prospects (despite his impressive debut yesterday I would be surprised if TI starts many of the early games next season for example)

 

He may prove me wrong on all the above. Next 6 months or so will provide many answers

 

I agree with, 2 at least with how we’ve been playing recently. 
 

What if 3 and 4 are linked? Why do we need to keep buying development players when we have youths? We have plenty of youth talent and a fairly young squad. 2/3 additions of quality not potential could be just what the squad needs. I think Carneys had 9 sub appearances, not extended minutes I know, but he’s had game time. There’s been word Ben chrisene will get game time in the final games. And Tim’s been talked about by Gerrard for some time now and was rewarded on Saturday. I’ve not seen anything to suggest we need to fear for our youths, if anything JJs game time and new contract and Tim’s debut on Saturday is encouraging. And Tim could still be loaned out next season I wouldn’t be surprised, but he’s shown there’s a path to the first team if you’re good enough 
 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, tom_avfc said:

Given that Smith had 11 games as opposed to Gerrard’s 22 this season it’s a bit more nuanced than simple league table positions.

One way to look at it would be to compare the relative performance of those 11 games with the reverse fixtures. Smith took 10 points from the first 11 games of this season. Gerrard took 7 points from the same 11 teams with only the win over Southampton bettering the result from first time around.

Beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich isn’t really anything to write home about. I’m not massively against Gerrard and I hope he does well but to suggest he’s doing a better job than Smith was despite losing to practically every team that we lost to under Smith is by no means a statement of fact as you’re trying to make it out to be.

Add in arguments for whether the style of football has improved, whether Gerrard has had fewer injuries and the outlay on expensive players in January and theres far more to the debate than a simple points comparison over games against different opposition will ever achieve.

I’m not convinced there is any worthwhile “debate” to be had here, since Smith was sacked for poor results and has been replaced by Gerrard who has achieved better results, however much one tries to twist and turn within the statistics to try to show the opposite.

No-one at the club is going to read your analysis and say, “Oh, OK, we were wrong, let’s get Smith back.”

Really we should be looking forward rather than dwelling on an imagined past in which the former manager was, according to some, more successful than  his results suggest.

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, tom_avfc said:

Given that Smith had 11 games as opposed to Gerrard’s 22 this season it’s a bit more nuanced than simple league table positions.

One way to look at it would be to compare the relative performance of those 11 games with the reverse fixtures. Smith took 10 points from the first 11 games of this season. Gerrard took 7 points from the same 11 teams with only the win over Southampton bettering the result from first time around.

Beating the likes of Leeds and Norwich isn’t really anything to write home about. I’m not massively against Gerrard and I hope he does well but to suggest he’s doing a better job than Smith was despite losing to practically every team that we lost to under Smith is by no means a statement of fact as you’re trying to make it out to be.

Add in arguments for whether the style of football has improved, whether Gerrard has had fewer injuries and the outlay on expensive players in January and theres far more to the debate than a simple points comparison over games against different opposition will ever achieve.

I don't think this is a good way of looking at it because by doing this you're ignoring a whole host of good results under Gerrard. The league is simply more than those 11 teams and Gerrard's result against the other teams are remarkably good, a lot more than would've been expected by Smith to achieve in those games.

You want to know our record in matches against those other 8 teams? 7 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses with those 2 losses coming against City and Liverpool. That's 23 points from 11 games, more than 2 points per game. You can't seriously expect me to believe that you think Smith would've achieved those results too had he been given the chance.

I do think looking at purely those 11 games is unfair on Smith though and I don't think PPG just from this season is a valid comparison to make. We should be looking at the performances last season as well to make that comparison. 30 games is my standard. As arbitrary as it is, I think it's a fair standard to choose. And if you look at Smith's PPG in those last 30 games, and Gerrard's so far, Gerrard wins hands down.

Regardless of whether Smith or Gerrard is better, I really only care about Gerrard's PPG to judge whether he deserves to be in the job. Its the obvious answer, of course the best way to judge Gerrard's performance is to see how many points his managed to get us so far. But its like pulling teeth to get you guys to acknowledge it and you'd rather pull up shit like win and loss percentage, or look at only 2022 games or even this shit where only games Smith managed and their reverse fixtures matter. All those metrics are valid, but they don't trump the simple PPG table this season that y'all absolutely loath to acknowledge.

 

 

[lexicon]

9 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The " 12th Man " seems to not exist anymore.

I'll tell you what, the negativity is draining, not even joking.

It makes it start to become unpleasant to be on the social media Villa pages and forums.

I hope eventually some people realise that their attitude of " Doom " in many facets is a CHOICE ( To wollow in the heartbreak of the events of the summer and start of this season )

Even on TV, you can usually hear the ground buzzing on TV. I'm convinced this was also partially due to Deano being there and it being awkward for certain fans, as theirs have been better atmospheres there even since SG has been in charge.

The easiest thing for people to say will be " It's because we are not inspired ". I think this goes both ways.

If the relentless negativity, is draining to me, as just an armchair fan, I don't want to imagine how it can possibly affect players and staff. 

It's clear as day some people minds are made up, and they are not going to stop until it's poisonous enough for them to get their way.

Fans need to take some sort of responsibility for trying to help their team and/or the feel good factor.

There is genuinely no reason for people to be as ridiculously dramatic as they are being.

Alot of sentiment seems to be based purely.on emotion, and refusal to move on.

It's like the bloke who's broken up with his long term girlfriend, his life has actually gotten better since she's left, he's got a better job, and prospects of even better women but he " Can't live without her ".

Anyway, it then becomes an echo chamber to the points where there noises snowball and I find even myself getting depressed about it all.

I've said on the thread multiple times, the fans are actually depressing me more than the football or my feelings about our future ffs.

Tbh JV, I don't think you're really helping yourself here either. I feel like you're choosing the most extreme examples to get wound up by and by doing so, you're pushing yourself further over into the opposite position. It's not secret that football fans, en masse, are a fickle and opinionated bunch - often people will take a disliking to someone for little reason, or will develop an affinity for someone for just as little too. It's just part of the game. I'd definitely recommend just using the ignore function for those who you think are being too unreasonable because it'll likely improve your experience on here - you're not going to say something that'll change their mind and it's clear you don't see eye-to-eye with them. There's just not any point engaging with them.

As you know, I'm concerned about Gerrard and whether he's the right man for the job, but for me 'getting my way' would be to see results; wins and points. I want him to prove me wrong. Beating Norwich was a step in the right direction and the performances from a few of the players, particularly the Ings and Watkins link up, is something to give me hope. Being concerned about Gerrard does not fly in the face of all logic, though, there are reasons for it whether you agree with them or not. Fact is, he needs wins and a strong end to the season - if he does that, he'll have the vast majority of the fanbase in a better, more optimistic place and a stronger mandate for changes/transfers over the summer. Let's hope that the Norwich game was the first step in this direction. 

[DCJonah]

Let's he honest, Gerrard wasn't brought in to stop the rot. If the club were seriously worried about relegation, they wouldn't have gambled on Gerrard. 

He's been brought in to take us into the top half and challenge for Europe. Purslow thinks he's the next big thing in management. 

He's done OK. We've had some decent moments. He's got a decent squad and he's easily had one of the best windows any villa manager has had. I can't remember the last time we were able to bring in names like Coutinho and Digne. 

He absolutely gets the summer and the vast majority of next season if not the whole of the season. But my concern is that I haven't seen much to suggest things will improve massively next year. And by this point and having this long in charge I'd have hoped to have seen that. 

The hope for pushing up next year seems to be reliant on who he is able to attract this summer rather than from anything his management has implemented this season. 

I was excited when he joined, that's gone if I'm honest. 

Fully behind him for next year but just uninspired by our football under him so far. 

[Phil Silvers]

Gerrard is a visionary, he thinks things, he's smart, he was one of the first to do this below. He's a thinker.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

It's baffling, like we have a bunch of Liverpool fans boys on here. 

This is the type of provocative and childish Bollox which winds people up. It's one of those little pathetic attempts at bully style reverse psychology. 

On the flip side, I reckon some of you should just piss off to Norwich and leave us " Liverpool fan boys " in peace.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[jim]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

I can't understand why people can't see what was wrong with Gerrards appointment, it's baffling to say the least. He's a 'Liverpool legend' managing our club, he will always be a 'Liverpool legend' no matter what he does here. If he does well then hes off to manage Liverpool, how can fans accept that? It's baffling, like we have a bunch of Liverpool fans boys on here. 

It's why the ground is flat and many fans have lost the connection wih the club. 

I just can't buy into it, he needed to be an exceptional manager. No one can watch us play and say he's been exceptional, not even Carragher or any other Liverpool fan could say it. 

You can’t understand it because you are clearly still grieving for Smith. It takes time you’ll be OK. 
 

Gerrard will only be off to Liverpool if he is successful here. I can live with that. I couldn’t give two hoots what club he is a legend at. He is clearly committed to the job at hand. 
 

If St. Dean was successful here he would most likely have gone to a bigger club as well. That’s football. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by jim

[messi11]

17 hours ago, david-avfc said:

Sorry not to pick on your comment specifically but this saying about no style which gets bandied around by fans of all clubs after a few poor performances is one of the blandest criticisms in football.
 

Of course we have a style of play, every team does unless your absolutely clueless and bottom of the league. We attack through the middle, try to pass through the midfield and push the fullbacks high for width whilst the front 3 play narrow. Whether you think that approach is good or bad is up to your opinion, personally I think Gerrards approach isn’t helping us. If anything the style he’s trying to implement is the problem, rather than not having a style at all.  A bit of a rant, nothing personal, but I just find it a frustrating criticism. 

I forgive you no need to say sorry

[Tomaszk]

11 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I've realised that Dean Smith fans, are the new Jack Grealish fans, and Steven Gerrard is Mason Mount or Raheem Sterling.

There are no logical arguments you can make which will change anything until they get what they want.

I'm an Aston Villa fan. I'd like to enjoy watching us and win some games every now and again.

When we improve, I'll probably warm to Gerrard.

I probably will get frustrated if we continue to lose due to an inexperienced manager insisting on playing a silly formation.

[HalfTimePost]

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

 

Lange when he sees Gerrard walking towards his office for the 5th time this week, to enquire about the possibility of Xabi Alonso, Didi Hamann, Danny Murphy, Dirk Kuyt and Luis Suarez:

Edited May 2, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[MaVilla]

8 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

 

good.

It may or may not work, but some of the signings we have made since our promotion, have been.......questionable at best.

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

good.

It may or may not work, but some of the signings we have made since our promotion, have been.......questionable at best.

Thats not really true though is it. Since promotion the only flop that we paid decent money for has been Wesley and maybe Sanson

[HalfTimePost]

1 minute ago, MaVilla said:

good.

It may or may not work, but some of the signings we have made since our promotion, have been.......questionable at best.

Don't think this is a good move at all. Dean came from Brentford where they (for the money spent) had perfected the Head Coach and Scouting roles. He was brought in because we wanted to work in a better funded version of the same thing and he did a good job for a number of years.

I'm slightly concerned at this move to a more traditional set up as we were on the right track just with a slightly 'off' execution.

Signings since Lange came in: Martinez, Cash, Watkins, Traore, Sanson, Buendia, Bailey, Ings, Chambers, Digne

We can debate Traore, Sanson and Bailey. But all three have had a number of injuries since joining that they just hadn't had before we signed them, it's not like we'd missed glaring injury issues.

Ings made perfect sense on paper - and we all debate how much Lange was the influence in signing him. 

The rest have done what was expected of them or are very new. I think our bigger challenge is actually the changing philosophies that have made Buendia, Bailey and Traore debatable as to whether they'll work with Gerrard going forward.

For me - the questions lie with Purslow on footballing decisions. He's on his second DoF & second manager since joining and we have neither a squad or a style suited to our manager or players. The players don't match the manager or the DoF doesn't understand the football we are trying to go for. That's our problem. We have a huge amount of talent in our squad.

[HalfTimePost]

I'm nervous about giving a manager a load of money to build their team and start from scratch when we have good players already.

A couple, for sure. But we've all seen at Villa what happens when a manager has too much say - MoN crippled us with awful transfers on huge wages that we couldn't shift. And then made the same mistake over and over again with dwindling funds until we nearly went bust.

If Purslow and Gerrard are going to minimise Langes role, then change Lange and get someone in who is on the same page as the two of them but has enough backbone to stick up for what they are trying to create with a longer term view.

I just don't think we should hand the keys to Gerrard - or any one manager.

[Zatman]

35 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

 

If this is true and its Preece so probably not but if it is then I give up. Purslow will need to be sacked same as Lange as thats not what we were told the club would be going forward and not another MON scenario

[bose]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Let's he honest, Gerrard wasn't brought in to stop the rot. If the club were seriously worried about relegation, they wouldn't have gambled on Gerrard. 

He's been brought in to take us into the top half and challenge for Europe. Purslow thinks he's the next big thing in management. 

He's done OK. We've had some decent moments. He's got a decent squad and he's easily had one of the best windows any villa manager has had. I can't remember the last time we were able to bring in names like Coutinho and Digne. 

He absolutely gets the summer and the vast majority of next season if not the whole of the season. But my concern is that I haven't seen much to suggest things will improve massively next year. And by this point and having this long in charge I'd have hoped to have seen that. 

The hope for pushing up next year seems to be reliant on who he is able to attract this summer rather than from anything his management has implemented this season. 

I was excited when he joined, that's gone if I'm honest. 

Fully behind him for next year but just uninspired by our football under him so far. 

A balanced and realistic view. Pretty much where I am now.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

11 minutes ago, Zatman said:

If this is true and its Preece so probably not but if it is then I give up. Purslow will need to be sacked same as Lange as thats not what we were told the club would be going forward and not another MON scenario

To be fair mate, we don't know what that quote really means.

It could mean he sits in the office giving Lange the death stare all day.

It could mean he just does the " Facials " to help convince desired targets etc 

It could mean he brings the transfer teams Kebabs to keep moral up.

I highly doubt we are uprooting our whole structure and giving SG free reign. Lol

I don't see how " Being hands on " or " Working closely " is a bad thing. It's not like they are giving him the access code to the Aston Villa Amex Black card and telling him to go forth and multiply 

For example, they discuss progress on desired targets, likelihoods, demands, responses they are recieving from camps, decide when to pull the plug on certain targets, or when to go forward with certain targets etc etc.

Edited May 2, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN