Popular Post danceoftheshamen Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) Well i think it's clear from SG's comments post that appaling Brentford performance, that the issue we have is the players keep dropping into this "too passive" mode. A "Lack of grit" i believe were his own words. That makes a whole lot of sense as we saw this same lack of "drive" very often with DS in charge too. To me that says we desperately need more leaders in the team. We have bought good players but the stats men cannot see Grit or drive in the same way that they can see number of passes, goals or assists. I think we have to also take into account that the Premier League is full of gritty/ tough players & teams. Moreso than for example France, Germany or Belgium etc. So whilst stats for a player in France may look great they are simply not playing against the same level of gritty highly driven player and often die rather than fly as a result when they come over here. Some adapt, many do not. To be passive & careless with the ball has been rife in this Villa team far too often for my liking for many years. It smacks of a distinct lack of drive in the team. If SG can sort this out he may just be onto something! The big issue is those are the players who will want to get the the most successful teams to quench their desire to win. One thing I used to coach people in business was "Skill can be learned but that "buring desire" or "drive" needed to truly succeed cannot, or someone with a lack of talent/skill but plenty of grit & determination will be more successful than someone talented who lacks focus/desire" For me this is what happened at Brentford for example. It appears this is the issue here. If you can find true talent coupled with that drive to succeed however....... Well that's a true recipe for success. Over to you Stevie G Edited January 5, 2022 by danceoftheshamen 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, onmeedson said: Maybe the data led program doe's not account for grit or character and the ability to battle on a Monday night at Burnley, Expected Mee's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Just now, CVByrne said: I think Gerrard's opinion is a) significantly more informed b) significantly more important than yours or mine. He's 29, if he chose to come here to play for a person he knows personally, in the League he has performed his best in. He'll see it as a way to show he still has a lot to offer. He probably has an eye on the World Cup like so man other players do (Gomez, Lingard etc.). Then come summer time with 1 year left on his contract he can find a permanent move somewhere. He doesn't need to get to the levels he hit with Liverpool. He doesn't need to get anywhere near it either to be an asset to Villa for 6 months. We were paying a £5m loan fee for Tuanzebe after all and at least half of that is now available. Look at Lingards reputation before and after his 6 months at West Ham. Look at Coutinho's loan spell at Bayern Munich the season they won the CL. Coutinho hasnt played in this league in 4 years. It will be more similar to Bale return last season 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, El-Reacho said: Pretty sure it's because every top division team in Europe is scouting the players the same data driven way so the top clubs are picking up the players with the best numbers when they're 17-18 and stock piling them. If there's a LB with the same numbers as Digne he'll have been sanpped up long ago. As good as our scouting department is we've probably only improved it to be as good as the other top teams in the PL. I think everyone is essentially looking at the same data and therefore the same players. Science takes any randomness or outliers out of the picture. And yet Brighton have just signed another. Burnley found Cornet, Watford signed Dennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said: Well i think it's clear from SG's comments post that appaling Brentford performance, that the issue we have is the players keep dropping into this "too passive" mode. A "Lack of grit" i believe were his own words. That makes a whole lot of sense as we saw this same lack of "drive" very often with DS in charge too. To me that says we desperately need more leaders in the team. We have bought good players but the stats men cannot see Grit or drive in the same way that they can see number of passes, goals or assists. I think we have to also take into account that the Premier League is full of gritty/ tough players & teams. Moreso than for example France, Germany or Belgium etc. So whilst stats for a player in France may look great they are simply not playing against the same level of gritty highly driven player and often die rather than fly as a result when they come over here. Some adapt, many do not. To be passive & careless with the ball has been rife in this Villa team far too often for my liking for many years. It smacks of a distinct lack of drive in the team. If SG can sort this out he may just be onto something! The big issue is those are the players who will want to get the the most successful teams to quench their desire to win. One thing I used to coach people in business was "Skill can be learned but that "buring desire" or "drive" needed to truly succeed, cannot" or " someone with a lack of talent/skill but plenty of grit & determination will be more successful than someone talented who lacks focus/desire" For me this is what happened at Brentford for example. It appears this is the issue here. If you can find true talent coupled with that drive to succeed however....... Well that's a true recepie for success. Over to you Stevie G Agreed. We had no Mings and no Young against Burnley. So we had lost the on pitch leaders. We are also without Nakamba who is all grit and bite. You could see the half efforts to get to the man with the ball, not close enough to pressure him. Go back and watch their 2nd goal, look at what Luiz does when the ball is passed to Janelt. It's absolutely pathetic attempt to press, just slow and leaving him all the space he needs to play the ball in to the edge of the box. So passive and there is no doubt what so ever if that was Nakamba he'd be in aggressively. We lack leaders, we lack grit and we lack consistency. Roy Keane was such a good player because of the absolute standards he required from everyone all the time. We need that badly in midfield and we have needed it badly since we got back to the Prem. I'd love it if we went for a Romeu for example. Edited January 5, 2022 by CVByrne spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: Coutinho hasnt played in this league in 4 years. It will be more similar to Bale return last season 11 goals 2 assist in 20 appearances sounds good to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, Zatman said: Coutinho hasnt played in this league in 4 years. It will be more similar to Bale return last season Very poor example. Bale in terms of stats was a massive success in a struggling Spurs side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, El-Reacho said: Pretty sure it's because every top division team in Europe is scouting the players the same data driven way so the top clubs are picking up the players with the best numbers when they're 17-18 and stock piling them. If there's a LB with the same numbers as Digne he'll have been sanpped up long ago. As good as our scouting department is we've probably only improved it to be as good as the other top teams in the PL. I think everyone is essentially looking at the same data and therefore the same players. Science takes any randomness or outliers out of the picture. Data probably plays a big part yes, but at the end of the day the opinions of the scouts and coaches who actually watch these guys play will play just as big a part and that tends to vary a lot. At worst, some might straight up disregard the data altogether. Like, Tuanzebe for us and Rondon with Everton, I doubt these signings were really data driven and were mostly just the managers who liked working with them. Secondly, there is probably a lot of data available but how this data is interpreted by different people is probably going to vary a lot too. I've seen enough bizarre signings relatively recently to know randomness and outliers still do happen. Edited January 5, 2022 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, Zatman said: Coutinho hasnt played in this league in 4 years. It will be more similar to Bale return last season F it let's go for it! Get Coutinho, Bale and Aaron Ramsey in on loan. £1.5m/w in salaries and neither of em' has played hardly any football in the last couple years. It'll be great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Agreed. We had no Mings and no Young against Burnley. So we had lost the on pitch leaders. We are also without Nakamba who is all grit and bite. You could see the half efforts to get to the man with the ball, not close enough to pressure him. Go back and watch their 2nd goal, look at what Luiz does when the ball is passed to Janelt. It's absolutely pathetic attempt to press, just slow and leaving him all the space he needs to play the ball in to the edge of the box. So passive and there is no doubt what so ever if that was Nakamba he'd be in aggressively. We lack leaders, we lack grit and we lack consistency. Roy Keane was such a good player because of the absolute standards he required from everyone all the time. We need that badly in midfield and we have needed it badly since we got back to the Prem. I'd love it if we went for a Romeu for example. Should have got him in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: 11 goals 2 assist in 20 appearances sounds good to me It's actually crazier when you consider half his appearances were off the bench 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Hickey the favorite to come in as left-back should our hierarchy meet the Bologna's hierarchy's £15m valuation, El Ghazi unhappy with his opportunites under Gerrard, Gerrard keen to find loan moves for Archer and Philogene-Bidace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, useless said: Hickey the favorite to come in as left-back should our hierarchy meet the Bologna's hierarchy's £15m valuation, El Ghazi unhappy with his opportunites under Gerrard, Gerrard keen to find loan moves for Archer and Philogene-Bidace. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, useless said: Hickey the favorite to come in as left-back should our hierarchy meet the Bologna's hierarchy's £15m valuation, El Ghazi unhappy with his opportunites under Gerrard, Gerrard keen to find loan moves for Archer and Philogene-Bidace. Is this just words or have you actually got something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 37 minutes ago, Zatman said: Coutinho hasnt played in this league in 4 years. It will be more similar to Bale return last season Difference is that Mourinho didn't want Bale, Levy did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Hickey is a likely one as he can cover both LB and RB as he is 2 footed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 41 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said: Well i think it's clear from SG's comments post that appaling Brentford performance, that the issue we have is the players keep dropping into this "too passive" mode. A "Lack of grit" i believe were his own words. That makes a whole lot of sense as we saw this same lack of "drive" very often with DS in charge too. To me that says we desperately need more leaders in the team. We have bought good players but the stats men cannot see Grit or drive in the same way that they can see number of passes, goals or assists. I think we have to also take into account that the Premier League is full of gritty/ tough players & teams. Moreso than for example France, Germany or Belgium etc. So whilst stats for a player in France may look great they are simply not playing against the same level of gritty highly driven player and often die rather than fly as a result when they come over here. Some adapt, many do not. To be passive & careless with the ball has been rife in this Villa team far too often for my liking for many years. It smacks of a distinct lack of drive in the team. If SG can sort this out he may just be onto something! The big issue is those are the players who will want to get the the most successful teams to quench their desire to win. One thing I used to coach people in business was "Skill can be learned but that "buring desire" or "drive" needed to truly succeed cannot, or someone with a lack of talent/skill but plenty of grit & determination will be more successful than someone talented who lacks focus/desire" For me this is what happened at Brentford for example. It appears this is the issue here. If you can find true talent coupled with that drive to succeed however....... Well that's a true recipe for success. Over to you Stevie G If not beating a full back and putting a cross into the penalty area - comes under lack of grit - then agreed we definitely lack that. If lack of grit is every player running at 100 MPH for the first 20 mins (when we look good) but then unable to sustain it much past that - to me thats lack of technique and guile - not grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Boubacar Kamara still seem like the absolute no-brainer target for the club, especially since he's out of contract in the summer and Marseille need to sell in Jan to get anything for him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, hippo said: If not beating a full back and putting a cross into the penalty area - comes under lack of grit - then agreed we definitely lack that. If lack of grit is every player running at 100 MPH for the first 20 mins (when we look good) but then unable to sustain it much past that - to me thats lack of technique and guile - not grit. Grit is also winning second balls and not sustain attacks because of it, when our attacks broke down against Brentford I can’t help but think if Nakamba was playing he would be winning the ball back 30 seconds later and sustaining out pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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