blandy Posted May 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2021 55 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I am sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Assuming I'm not understanding you. That bit you don't understand - what I mean is that if I (say) was anti-Semitic, but knew that I can't just slag off "Jews" I could couch my anti-Semitism in more generic terms about Israel. It happens a fair bit - people quite deliberately muddying the waters, a sort of "nudge nudge, wink wink, y'know what I really mean" - like for a rubbish, perhaps, example "of course, we've always known that Israeli bankers exert undue influence and those bankers need to be treated as the vermin they are ....no, no, I'm not being anti-semitic, I'm having a go at bankers, honest". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 That's sort of what I thought you ment, but I still don't really get it. I fully understand that may happen, just like any group of people can be stigmatised through hidden racism. But surely that has no effect or relevance for using the term Israeli when debating the actions of Israel. Guess there's a point here I'm not getting. Too much vino too early today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) Never really met any or knew of any until I worked my way to the upper echelons of financial services and suddenly met quite a few of them, mainly from the Manchester communities. Good bunch of people. First came across what I would call ‘proper’ Jews in Aberystwyth (full gear etc) about 10/15 years ago. Several hundred, maybe more from North London I am told used to holiday there for a couple of weeks each summer and stop in the University flats. I think health and safety put an end to this as they banned them from lighting candles in the properties and they just stopped coming. Very much chalk and cheese from the Manchester people Edited May 17, 2021 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Never really met any or knew of any until I worked my way to the upper echelons of financial services and suddenly met quite a few of them, mainly from the Manchester communities. Good bunch of people. First came across what I would call ‘proper’ Jews in Aberystwyth (full gear etc) about 10/15 years ago. Several hundred, maybe more from North London I am told used to holiday there for a couple of weeks each summer and stop in the University flats. I think health and safety put an end to this as they banned them from lighting candles in the properties and they just stopped coming. Very much chalk and cheese from the Manchester people This is true. I used to live in a university flat that had what got known as a 'Jewish fridge' - basically the family that stopped there during the summer bought a new fridge (presumably due to the kosher issues) and left it when they went, so we had a slightly better fridge than other residences. A friend who stayed in the town year round told me once he saw an orthodox Jewish bloke in full gear ride a bike into the sea one summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Definitely didn't knowingly meet any growing up in Tamworth but mate from uni is Jewish. Went to his wedding in Tel Aviv, I can certainly say that Jewish weddings are bloody great! Also got engaged myself in Jerusalem the day after with a killer hangover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 I met a Jew at uni - he was a massive bellend - usurped EVERY lecture with his "superior" knowledge to the tutors, even to the point of arguing with them. Yoshe - or something familiar. And because I watched Bo Selecta' as a 16 year old, I (and friends) said "jew" a lot because I found the Baddiel and Skinner sketch funny (being a big B&S fan) and South Park made it funny. I was an anti-Semitic bellend. Ignorance more than anything. I didn't know I was being racist until about 5 years ago when I kinda just realised, "I'm taking the piss because of the Jewish thing" and that's not so cool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Chindie said: This is true. I used to live in a university flat that had what got known as a 'Jewish fridge' - basically the family that stopped there during the summer bought a new fridge (presumably due to the kosher issues) and left it when they went, so we had a slightly better fridge than other residences. A friend who stayed in the town year round told me once he saw an orthodox Jewish bloke in full gear ride a bike into the sea one summer. funny you should say that, we were on Ynyslas beach one afternoon and three fully kitted out Jews went past us on horses galloping in the surf, That was a very surreal sight to say the least, my youngest at the time shouted ‘look Dad, Jews on horseback’ That still gets brought up from time to time even now. This is a very long shot but on some of the street signs signs coming out of Aberystwyth there used to be ‘RIP Borth Fly’ sprayed on them in blue paint, Any idea who this character may have been, As a family we have being intrigued for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 No idea unfortunately. I'd guess a student in joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: I was an anti-Semitic bellend. Well you’re not anti-Semitic any more, so that’s nice. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted May 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: funny you should say that, we were on Ynyslas beach one afternoon and three fully kitted out Jews went past us on horses galloping in the surf, That was a very surreal sight to say the least, my youngest at the time shouted ‘look Dad, Jews on horseback’ That still gets brought up from time to time even now. This is a very long shot but on some of the street signs signs coming out of Aberystwyth there used to be ‘RIP Borth Fly’ sprayed on them in blue paint, Any idea who this character may have been, As a family we have being intrigued for years We were in Primark doing our annual posh shop. Slowly emerging up the escalator were two ladies in niqabs. My nipper just pointed at them and very loudly announced ‘Dad! Ninjas!’ Thank **** that whilst they clearly heard and saw, one of them just did a sort of karate chop move. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 I maintain that it's 'antisemitism' and not 'anti-semitism' and this is the hill I'll die on. (That's not an antisemitic trope is it? It seems like every well used idiom has antisemitic origins) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Chindie said: No idea unfortunately. I'd guess a student in joke. I thought that or maybe a local famous alcoholic type character. I suppose somethings is a life are never to be revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2021 Amusing observation on FB by an American (secular Jew, as it happens) friend of mine: Quote Apparently, it's now forbidden to refer to slaves. For a Very Good Reason I can't quite recall (largely because it seemed nonsensical) a slave is now an enslaved person. Adding syllables always suggests great respect, as when African-American replaced black, and person of colour (five syllables) replaced coloured person (four), and the hyper-patronising "person of the Jewish faith" replaced Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, darrenm said: I maintain that it's 'antisemitism' and not 'anti-semitism' and this is the hill I'll die on. (That's not an antisemitic trope is it? It seems like every well used idiom has antisemitic origins) Why? (Not disputing, just not familiar with this debate . . .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Why? (Not disputing, just not familiar with this debate . . .) I can't quite remember but I'm pretty sure it's because the people who knew what they were talking about said antisemitism and the idiots looking only to cause trouble said anti-Semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2021 30 minutes ago, darrenm said: I can't quite remember but I'm pretty sure it's because the people who knew what they were talking about said antisemitism and the idiots looking only to cause trouble said anti-Semitism. That really isn't it. I've just spent half an hour reading up on it. The IHRA saying it should not be hyphenated because there's no such body of people as the Semites so you can't be anti them, there are lots of scholars who agree with this as do many campaigners, however, there are also many Jewish media outlets (inc The Times of Israel) and campaigners who use the hyphenated form or do so when he publication they are writing for's Style Guide says they should. I believe it's mainly to counter arguments mainly in the Arab World saying that antisemitism isn't just about bigotry towards Jews but against all the people using a Semitic language (inc the Tigreans) but the term was apparently coined in Germany moons ago and has always specifically been about hatred towards Jews. I've not read one suggestion that the hyphen has been weapon used by far right groups or anything like that and the hyphen only appears in the English language. It seems to be a particularly technical argument that the average person of Jewish heritage really doesn't care either way about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Since my hiatus, when I've read the current batch of topics and press next unread topic I get flung to some interesting threads. Some of you might have realised this what with receiving 2year old reactions and such. Anyway, interesting thread to stumble across in the current climate. Worth a bump. Not enough likes to press on effectively every other post. Suffice to say I agree with the voices of reason. Also made me think it's a shame a few of the posters don't seem to frequent Off Topic much these days if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 1, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 1, 2023 Calling for a ceasefire. Durr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 Maybe they just had a problem with the Israeli government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 21 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Maybe they just had a problem with the Israeli government. And the Israeli flag they pose behind in pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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