tommytenjobs Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Just seen the caption of what appears to be the average positions of players in todays game above in this thread. my 14 year old daughter at her first game in three years at half time said “why do they all seem to camp out on this wing, standing on each others toes. They never run with the ball or try to pass more than 5 feet before then smacking it as hard as they can up the side. Do you think that’s what they’re trying to do?” looking at that graphic and my feelings during and after the game, I think her critique of Gerrard and todays performance is pretty accurate. I just have no idea of what the coach is trying to do with this formation and system. There are no overloads of benefit that I can see. Without Ramsey, there is no one bringing the ball between the lines. No one willing to pass between the lines. (Apart from Tim I, in his brief cameo vrs Bolton) and no one willing ti take any risk until EMI comes on. I’m normally quite good at working out why a coach is employing an idea, even if I don’t agree, you can see what they are trying. But….asking McGinn, Digne and Countino to play countless triangle passes of 5 yards to each other before tossing one over the top into the left channel for one of Watkins or Ings to chase…..leaves me confused and bewildered. Whatever we are trying to do, the formation and instructions appears to be confusing and demoralising the players. I’ve never seen the ground and player body language so flat since some of Bruce dark days. QPR at home maybe? im normally one to give mangers time and not too sentimental but this week I got quite emotional describing how much time and respect I had for Dean Smith. My god I miss someone with a plan and personality in could get on board with. This is dire, depressing and such a waste of a fabulous set of talented players. Honestly, binning Traore off to the Turkish league and then playing cash as a right winger instead…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Play either 4-3-3 with Buendia Right and Bailey Left and them both alternating Watkins through the middle and have a midfield of Kamara Luiz and McGinn/Ramsey, let the Full Backs play as full backs instead suicide wingers and stick with it to see the results and performances improve. Otherwise 4-2-3-1 with Coutinho Left Bailey Right and Buendia interchanging with Bailey and Coutinho . Obviously Luiz and Kamara sitting. FFS! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted August 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2022 4-2-3-1 with a front 6 of: Kamara Luis Buendia Coutinho Bailey Watkins That can easily become a 4-4-1-1 OR 4-3-3 with a front 6 of: Louis Kamara Sanson Buendia Watkins Bailey Alternate depending on the opposition. Archer and Ings can come on as attacking options/variation. It seems pretty obvious to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 It's quite baffling how the management team doesn't see whats wrong, I hold McAllister in high regard so I don't understand it. We simply do not have enough creativity in the team we played today. Our only point of creativity was Coutinho and he is off his game, didn't create anything. Ings and Watkins don't create much, they are mostly reliable on others creating. McGinn tries a Hollywood pass now and then, but doesn't create any real chances. Luiz is great att passing and keeping possession, can now and then play a good through ball but doesn't create many big chances. Moreover, McGinn and Luiz dropps out wide behind the full backs in attack. Kamara is a holding midfielder dropping down in our backline. Our full backs are supposed to be our creative outlets on the wings, but the other teams have figured this out long time ago and can easily double up and block them (and hit us on the counter when we leave the gaps behind them). So of course we wont create much or score many goals when we play this way with no players who actually create. The solution is as obvious as seeing the problem. With a 4-2-3-1 we would have three attacking players who can create for one forward, Coutinho in the no 10, Bailey and Buendia in the wide positions and Ings or Watkins up front. We then have three players creating chances, with our full backs be able to overload at times and contribute even more. We could also go 4-4-2 with for example Bailey and Buendia on the wings creating chances for Ings and Watkins (would have been better if they weren't so similar in style, but would still make us create more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted August 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: I'm still laughing at this. Unbelievable that a top flight team is playing like this. What!? That's the formation? I thought it was some kind of semaphore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 6 hours ago, djdabush said: Still can't understand what he has against playing wingers or at least wide forwards. A front 4 of Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Watkins would surely work better than what we have now He has flashbacks because Rafa never trusted him in centre midfield and put him out wide since then he hates wide players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Bit like when the best team in the world signed Grealish for £100m and there was a relief that I wasn't insane...he really was that good. The constant comparisons with comparative wasters like Maddison and Alli was a waste of time. After the first few which we did do well to get results in, it's been absolutely God awful. Never looked like he had a clue, just spoke well. Could be end of his career. The hole is that someone comes in and makes us click quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Is Beale playing a similar system to us at QPR? Surprised Critchley has not flagged our issues to Gerard. Or is SG stubborn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyVillans Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 There was a moment in the 2nd half where mcginn had the ball towards the right wing and ramsey was near hugging the left wing touchline. What other team in world football plays with their midfield 3 so far apart. Its hard to blame the players when the system is so messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Only thing i'll say Gerrard's defense, is that against a 5 at the back system, 4-4-2 is very effective, so i understand that choice. You also have to go around them (use the flanks). However you also need you strikers in the middle looking to get on the end of crosses. Too often one of the fowards are linking up with the fullback, to get the cross in! The standard of crossing has been terrible, and the numbers in the box haven't been there. We also don't have a real presence in the box either! Our strikers want to get in behind and in the channels, none of them have that elusive movement, or powerful presence to properly threaten on crosses. Ings makes some good runs but lack the raw speed. Ollie lacks clever movement. The balance of our team is off, regardless of the formation we play as the players Gerrard picks, and the roles he gives some of them aren't suitable. He doesn't seem to know what to do with what he has! McGinn's performances have been poor, he deserves to be dropped. But I'm sure captain fantastic won't be dropped! Gerrard making McGinn captain has done the lad no favours what so ever. It's only affectted his form, and made him a target. If he wants to control midfield, the Kamara and Luiz are basically undroppable. McGinn and Ramsey are interchangable! We need our fullbacks to be a little more sensible, like not both bomb forward at the same time all the f****** time. Take turns most of the time and occasionally at the same time. If he rates Bailey, he has to give the guy a run of games. This is what Bailey needs to show what he is capable of. If he wants Coutinho and Buendia to thrive, he needs to give them a consistent runners from midfield. If you play both Coutinho and Buendia then you need the two central midfielders running beyond them through the middle, when they are wide, and the fullbcks running beyond when they are narrow. Not the fullbacks always running beyond and the central midfielders trying to fill the holes they leave. As a result the middle of the pitch is too static, and the attack down the flanks predictable and so easy to defend. If we can't do this properly, then compromise play a more defensively minded midfielder to support the DM, and give the other CM the freedom to get in the box at will. Play your fullbacks a little more conservatively, and look to control games. Maybe won't win as many, but we certainly won't lose as many! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero7 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 One of the biggest issues we face is playing two up top, leaves a big hole in midfield. Both olie and ings are not good enough as a single striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Smith's system would work really well with these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zero7 said: One of the biggest issues we face is playing two up top, leaves a big hole in midfield. Both olie and ings are not good enough as a single striker One strange thing though is that when playing two up top, our nr 10 seems to be tasked with picking up the opposition DM. Like yesterday when Coutinho was onto Rice whenever WH were in possession. But when we play with two nr 10s, no-one seems to do that which has been a problem. It's been mentioned before the game yesterday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, lexicon said: Smith's system would work really well with these players. At the least a system would work better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said: One strange thing though is that when playing two up top, our nr 10 seems to be tasked with picking up the opposition DM. Like yesterday when Coutinho was onto Rice whenever WH were in possession. But when we play with two nr 10s, no-one seems to do that which has been a problem. It's been mentioned before the game yesterday too. Did he follow that up? I'm guessing he's just a analysis account that picked us out, not associated with villa or anything? I'm expecting when villa finally pull the trigger on the media's beloved Gerrard they won't talk about stuff like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: Did he follow that up? I'm guessing he's just a analysis account that picked us out, not associated with villa or anything? I'm expecting when villa finally pull the trigger on the media's beloved Gerrard they won't talk about stuff like this The Talking Tactics bloke is a scout who is running an analytics account and isn't related to Villa. But he got a lot of Villa followers from the start for some reason so have been writing quite a lot about us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 I've been both to home games this season so am talking from a position of seeing the whole pitch for a full 90. The level of tactical ineptitude is astonishing. Bruce and McLeish played some of the most insipid football I've ever seen, but at least we knew that was their style, their preferred strategy and the players were brought in, in the most part, to compliment those strategies. I have no idea what this Villa is. If I wasn't (relatively) intelligent I'd think Gerrard was trolling us. It's completely broken. I could go into specifics, but you'd all be "too long, didn't read". I haven't enjoyed going to Villa Park for a while now, so my wallet is staying in my pocket until this is fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 17 minutes ago, daft said: I suggested it was a POSSIBILITY. We can't just close our eyes to because Gerrard is a word removed. That puts us at even greater risk. We get a new man in, they need to step up. How many sides do you think, man for man, are actually better than ours in this league? Some of them would kill to have some of our players. At the very least - Bournemouth, Fulham, Everton, Brentford, Forest, Leeds, Southampton, even Brighton! And plenty of other teams, even some of the top ones, wouldn’t say no to having a few at least in their squads… The big thing most of us complained about was the lack of a DM. We’ve made probably the best signing we could have for that position in Kamara, a huge talent with huge potential and ability. And yet we still need enforcement in midfield to help him out. We should be a doing a hell of a lot better than we have been, I have no doubt about. How many teams do we have to repeat that our manger is so poor, so inept and clueless, so lacking in nous and ability… because of him, we have a poor system, we are holding our players back, we have no effective style of play, no identity, we make schoolboy errors and decisions in games. It’s so clearly evident that it doesn’t even need mentioning any more. He is a failure. Btw, the intention isn’t to have a go at you. It’s just a general statement and response that is addressing the opinion that maybe our squad isn’t good enough or is poor, I’ve seen that crop up a few times and only see it as another excuse or another way to deflect blame away from the manager. It needs to stop, he is wholly responsible for this mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jas10 said: How many sides do you think, man for man, are actually better than ours in this league? Some of them would kill to have some of our players. At the very least - Bournemouth, Fulham, Everton, Brentford, Forest, Leeds, Southampton, even Brighton! And plenty of other teams, even some of the top ones, wouldn’t say no to having a few at least in their squads… The big thing most of us complained about was the lack of a DM. We’ve made probably the best signing we could have for that position in Kamara, a huge talent with huge potential and ability. And yet we still need enforcement in midfield to help him out. We should be a doing a hell of a lot better than we have been, I have no doubt about. How many teams do we have to repeat that our manger is so poor, so inept and clueless, so lacking in nous and ability… because of him, we have a poor system, we are holding our players back, we have no effective style of play, no identity, we make schoolboy errors and decisions in games. It’s so clearly evident that it doesn’t even need mentioning any more. He is a failure. Btw, the intention isn’t to have a go at you. It’s just a general statement and response that is addressing the opinion that maybe our squad isn’t good enough or is poor, I’ve seen that crop up a few times and only see it as another excuse or another way to deflect blame away from the manager. It needs to stop, he is wholly responsible for this mess. Sorry but I still find this argument for the squad poor. Having 3 - 5 stand out players doesn't mean the overall squad isn't shite or unbalanced. A squad with 22 " average " players is still better than a team with 10 average players, 3 standout players and 9 shit ones for example. There are great players at shit teams all over the world.I repeat, we could have prime Ronaldo in our team and still fail. However, this isn't currently the underlying argument for why we are so poor. Edited August 29, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Yes, but he's set up the team so we're relying on all with and wide attacking intent from full backs. He even got rid of Targett and installed Digne who obviously he feels is better suited to the task. If the personel are not good enough and don't have the capabilities to play how we wants them to play, expecially when he brought one of them in to do so, he can't then throw them under a bus. I think he can when they're passing a ball like that. It doesn't matter who signed you or where you've come from, at this level you've got to be able to pass a ball. It was awful. Digne especially was poor. For the record not defending SG but the players here really need to pull there socks up. The simple stuff was shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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