Team shape, tactics and personnel

[MWARLEY2]

We won the transfer window in the summer according to the press. We won it in January according to the press. They could see that our purchases were decent and were going to push up the quality in the squad.

So why can't these players play to their potential. These players who said that the training was much more intense and focussed. And whose manager said that he would have a mini preseason 3 weeks ago in order to put all of his information over to his players so they can fully understand the system and get them fitter.

If it isnt the quality of the players , if it isnt because we have multiple injuries , and if it isn't the quality of the training taken by Michael Beale then what are we left with. The quality of the tactics.

  And those tactics are already being shown to not work with the players we have at our disposal. They worked at first but teams have worked us out already it seems.

I was hoping the players true understanding of the system would enable them to play around teams setting up against us but it hasnt happened. 

 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

Worse than Dean's last ten games. 

We played 12 Premier League games under Dean this season - Won 4, lost 7 drew 1.

Under Gerrard so far. P13

W5 L6 D2 

Very clear new manager bounce, then atrocious. The more time goes on, the worse we look. 

4 of those games were against Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool to be fair.

However yes, it's terrible viewing,

( and yes, I know we beat Man U 1 - 0 when Deano was here, before someone says it )

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

4 of those games were against Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool to be fair.

However yes, it's terrible viewing,

( and yes, I know we beat Man U 1 - 0 when Deano was here, before someone says it )

United are dreadful and just a name now, we did play City in fairness 

[Zatman]

Major worry is Rangers fans warned us he wasnt tactically flexible and his in game management was poor 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

United are dreadful and just a name now, we did play City in fairness 

I often wonder how us as fans, decide teams like Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc are " shit " just because they aren't what they once were.

United are currently sitting 4th in the table, Arsenal 6th, Spurs 7th etc.

Not even necessarily just aimed at this post or context, but it seems a recurring theme which actually doesn't make sense from where we sit. lol

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I often wonder how us as fans, decide teams like Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc are " shit " just because they aren't what they once were.

United are currently sitting 4th in the table, Arsenal 6th, Spurs 7th etc.

Not even necessarily just aimed at this post or context, but it seems a recurring theme which actually doesn't make sense from where we sit. lol

They just threw away a 2 goal lead vs Leeds like they did us plus last few weeks drawn with Burnley, Southampton, Middlesboro, smashed by Watford and needed a debateable decision to beat Norwich 

They really are dreadful. Is only 3 top teams in the league 

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

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Edited February 20, 2022 by BleedClaretAndBlue

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I often wonder how us as fans, decide teams like Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc are " shit " just because they aren't what they once were.

United are currently sitting 4th in the table, Arsenal 6th, Spurs 7th etc.

Not even necessarily just aimed at this post or context, but it seems a recurring theme which actually doesn't make sense from where we sit. lol

Which leads on to us playing a team every other week where "we have to beat these, they're shit" 

FWIW I think the PL is so competitive because there are so many sloppy inconsistent teams but they're not shit 

[AvonVillain]

1 minute ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

.

Well said.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think it's somewhere in between mate, hindsight and all that.

Same performers who threw Deano under the bus eventually, seem to currently be doing the same to SG.

Only time will tell, if the decision was the correct one.

However on the flip side, most agreed that Deano needed " time " to build his squad, as of last summer ( - Jack : A big minus of course ) we could pretty much say that he had developed " his squad ".

I reckon SG deserves even a third of a half the same opportunity.

Again, only time will tell, but I get what you're saying.

Don't forget 3 of the team yesterday weren't there to throw Dean under a bus.

[tinker]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Major worry is Rangers fans warned us he wasnt tactically flexible and his in game management was poor 

Wish they would have spoke to Purslow before he came. 

[Blasterpocket68]

14 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said:

We won the transfer window in the summer according to the press. We won it in January according to the press. They could see that our purchases were decent and were going to push up the quality in the squad.

So why can't these players play to their potential. These players who said that the training was much more intense and focussed. And whose manager said that he would have a mini preseason 3 weeks ago in order to put all of his information over to his players so they can fully understand the system and get them fitter.

If it isnt the quality of the players , if it isnt because we have multiple injuries , and if it isn't the quality of the training taken by Michael Beale then what are we left with. The quality of the tactics.

  And those tactics are already being shown to not work with the players we have at our disposal. They worked at first but teams have worked us out already it seems.

I was hoping the players true understanding of the system would enable them to play around teams setting up against us but it hasnt happened. 

 

 

I agree but we need to give them more time. Patience and time are never given commodities in Football but fans have to accept we’re again in transition . 

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Id like to see us change the system.

Go 4231

Emi

Cash konsa mings digne

         Mcginn ramsey

Buendia   phil       bailey

               Ings

Full backs need to be way more conservative until we start becoming more solid. Allow them to become a 4 with mchinn n ramsey when on the attack. Let bailey run at defenders, let phil work his magic giving through balls to ings.

Just play similar to the way we played when Gerrard first came, his primary focus was the clean sheet. I’d take that for now.

[Rightdm00]

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Major worry is Rangers fans warned us he wasnt tactically flexible and his in game management was poor 

If he doesn't fix this then we could go down. His major shake up for Watford was to swap the strikers and play the exact same flawed system. Does he even have it in him to go 3 at the back or field wingers for width?

[Xela]

Do we think we're a little one dimensional up front as they are all right-footers? Buendia, Countinho, Ings and Watkins. 

Least with Traore last season, he offered a different aspect. 

[Made In Aston]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

can you elaborate?

A rush keeper is one where he plays as an outfield player but then gets back in goal when need be. It's a playground tactic and I wasn't being serious. My point is that it's just as stupid as the system Gerrard is employing. 

[OutByEaster?]

If we're playing our full backs as wingers, then is there a case for playing our best wide defenders in midfield.

A sort of:

-------------------------Martinez-----------------------

Cash---------Konsa---------Mings--------Digne

-------Chambers-----Luiz-----Young--------------

---------------Buendia-----Coutinho-----------------

--------------------------Watkins--------------------------

So that when we have the ball, we're a bit more natural as:

--------------------------Martinez------------------------

-----------------Konsa---------Mings------------------

-Chambers-----------Luiz-----------------Young--

---------------Buendia-----Coutinho-----------------

--Cash---------------Watkins--------------Digne---

Try not to get too hung up on Luiz and Watkins - replace them with your preference in your head if you like - for me those aren't the problem we need to fix, it's our imbalance down the sides.

I know it sounds bonkers and it's really harsh on Ramsey - but I really think we need to look at something radical if we're going to be pushing to make the system work.

 

[nepal_villan]

Really good visualization on Reddit highlighting the flaw with Gerrard's system.

[Rightdm00]

32 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If we're playing our full backs as wingers, then is there a case for playing our best wide defenders in midfield.

A sort of:

-------------------------Martinez-----------------------

Cash---------Konsa---------Mings--------Digne

-------Chambers-----Luiz-----Young--------------

---------------Buendia-----Coutinho-----------------

--------------------------Watkins--------------------------

So that when we have the ball, we're a bit more natural as:

--------------------------Martinez------------------------

-----------------Konsa---------Mings------------------

-Chambers-----------Luiz-----------------Young--

---------------Buendia-----Coutinho-----------------

--Cash---------------Watkins--------------Digne---

Try not to get too hung up on Luiz and Watkins - replace them with your preference in your head if you like - for me those aren't the problem we need to fix, it's our imbalance down the sides.

I know it sounds bonkers and it's really harsh on Ramsey - but I really think we need to look at something radical if we're going to be pushing to make the system work.

 

I like how you are thinking through this. It shows how crazy you have to get to make this system viable.  McLeish would love that lineup. 7 defensive minded players combined with 3 attackers. Steven just really needs to try something more sensible, Tavernier isn't walking through that door. 

[VillaChris]

We should ditch it and just go back to 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 I think.

This actually reminds me a bit of playing 3-5-2 which eventually did for DS. We started off that system change by playing really well at Chelsea and then beating Everton and Man. United without conceding....but then it got exposed badly once October hit.

Same is happening with this formation so we just need to go back to what's more comfortable for players for rest of season e.g. one CF with Coutinho and Bailey/Buendia either side and then 3 CMs with two instructed to stay disciplined infront of the back 4.

Do that and we should have enough about us to grind out a draw or two and odd win and then it's easier end to season.

If you watch the Sissoko second half chance again then Ramsey is right on edge of our box. Guess it was his man to track but given he's hit three goals in last 5 games obviously not the best use of him if he's having to constantly get back when he's being played as most advanced of the CMs.