General officiating/rules

[bannedfromHandV]

40 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

so then he's flagged because he thinks JJ has taken a touch

there is at least a logic to the decision with our one, the lino saw something which made coutinho offside and raised his flag, the ref blew the whistle so play was dead, the error is in not letting play develop and letting VAR do its job

newcastle i honestly dont know, i think its a goal but i dont think thats a shocker, its harsh but again i can at least understand why the ref did what he did, surprised they got an apology

the chelsea one isn't comparable IMO, the error there is a lack of basic understanding as to how football is played and outright cheating

But surely you could apply the same logic in your final paragraph to the Newcastle situation? 
 

The Newcastle player had clearly been nudged whilst mid-air, into the goalkeeper.

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But surely you could apply the same logic in your final paragraph to the Newcastle situation? 
The Newcastle player had clearly been nudged whilst mid-air, into the goalkeeper.

I think the bigger issue with that Newcastle goal is that the coming together is 50/50 so why favour the GK over the attacker, I dont think theres really a foul by either player, at least the contact is proper and I can understand why the keeper stayed down and why the ref thought the contact is enough to warrant a foul even if how the contact came about means it wasnt

What I do think is a narrative has popped up that these decisions were made on the same weekend and it shows that West ham and Newcastle are pushing for top 6 and this is the refs saying nope... And I don't buy in to that at all, these 2 incidences are coincidence and it's the west ham one that is alarmingly bad whereas the Newcastle one was the ref apportioning blame when he didn't need to 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, NeilS said:

Another Hawkeye failure

Huddersfield were denied an equaliser in their loss to Blackpool due to goal-line technology failing to operate, says the English Football League (EFL).

Yuta Nakayama's second-half 'goal' for the Terriers was controversially ruled not to have crossed the line.

The EFL says following an assessment by Hawk-Eye, who provide the technology, the ball was not being tracked in the build-up to Nakayama's effort.

Referees body PGMOL said officials were unsighted due to player obstruction.

The incident came during a weekend where officiating technology was called into question in the Premier League, with PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Limited) accepting controversial VAR decisions made at Chelsea and Newcastle were wrong.

In a statement, the EFL said the referee's decision at the time in the Huddersfield-Blackpool game was "final" and "the match result stands".

"During a second-half incident with Huddersfield attacking, the match officials did not receive a signal to their watch or earpiece as, due to multiple factors, the ball was no longer being tracked following it entering the Blackpool goal area," the statement explained.

"Whilst the system was tested and functional prior to the start of the game, further information is expected from both Hawk-Eye and PGMOL following a full review of the incident.

"Technology is there to support the decision-making processes of match officials in the Championship and it failing in such a manner on Sunday is a matter of great concern."

Huddersfield, who are one place off the bottom of the Championship with only one win from their first seven games, said on Monday the incident was a "clear failure" of the technology system in operation.

Let's see if Blackpool stay up or whatever by 2 points purely because of this incident.

[NeilS]

32 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

so then he's flagged because he thinks JJ has taken a touch

there is at least a logic to the decision with our one, the lino saw something which made coutinho offside and raised his flag, the ref blew the whistle so play was dead, the error is in not letting play develop and letting VAR do its job

newcastle i honestly dont know, i think its a goal but i dont think thats a shocker, its harsh but again i can at least understand why the ref did what he did, surprised they got an apology

the chelsea one isn't comparable IMO, the error there is a lack of basic understanding as to how football is played and outright cheating

Yeah I think that is probably the only logical explanation for what the officials were thinking at that time. They should have let play continue, and that is the frustrating aspect of the decision because I fancy that shot from Phil would have beaten Ederson after the deflection off of Stones face.

I think the difficulty with refereeing in the PL stems from the pace the game is played at. You have a normal fairly fit person trying to keep up with elite athletes, a lot of whom are looking at ways to con the referee most of the time to gain that advantage. Couple that with 40-50k people berating you for every decision, players surrounding you and managers like Klopp, Fergie and Pep who all know how to pressure an official into getting their way. I do believe the top teams get given a leeway on certain decisions, and I think I recall an ex top ref possibly Jeff Winter saying that referees were told to be more lenient with the star players whenever possible as that is who the crowd have come to see. So that probably plays in officials minds when making decisions.

Someone on here (I can't recal who), said that the FA should catch a lot of the youngsters who don't make it in the game but have the high level of fitness and pace to encourage them to take up refereeing, either that or recently retired Pro footballers who have maintained fitness could take on the role. Although on second thoughts, imagine Robbie Savage leading the teams out at VP dressed in his referee kit. 

[NeilS]

31 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Let's see if Blackpool stay up or whatever by 2 points purely because of this incident.

I think it is Huddersfield who ar emore likely going to rue that decision as they are firmly fixed in the relegation zone at the moment. I am just glad we are not the only ones this has affected now. It still feels like every bad decision against us (and there does appear to be alot) is justified as ok because we had that one decision go our way a few years ago.

[fightoffyour]

Just now, NeilS said:

I think it is Huddersfield who ar emore likely going to rue that decision as they are firmly fixed in the relegation zone at the moment. I am just glad we are not the only ones this has affected now. It still feels like every bad decision against us (and there does appear to be alot) is justified as ok because we had that one decision go our way a few years ago.

We’d be in league one now if it wasn’t for that!

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, NeilS said:

Yeah I think that is probably the only logical explanation for what the officials were thinking at that time. They should have let play continue, and that is the frustrating aspect of the decision because I fancy that shot from Phil would have beaten Ederson after the deflection off of Stones face.

I think the difficulty with refereeing in the PL stems from the pace the game is played at. You have a normal fairly fit person trying to keep up with elite athletes, a lot of whom are looking at ways to con the referee most of the time to gain that advantage. Couple that with 40-50k people berating you for every decision, players surrounding you and managers like Klopp, Fergie and Pep who all know how to pressure an official into getting their way. I do believe the top teams get given a leeway on certain decisions, and I think I recall an ex top ref possibly Jeff Winter saying that referees were told to be more lenient with the star players whenever possible as that is who the crowd have come to see. So that probably plays in officials minds when making decisions.

Someone on here (I can't recal who), said that the FA should catch a lot of the youngsters who don't make it in the game but have the high level of fitness and pace to encourage them to take up refereeing, either that or recently retired Pro footballers who have maintained fitness could take on the role. Although on second thoughts, imagine Robbie Savage leading the teams out at VP dressed in his referee kit. 

I've said that before, I don't think refs are paid enough or we'll trained enough in the context of what the PL is

Premier League footballers are world class athletes in their prime and we wonder why 50 year old men with fitness first passes are struggling to keep up with them... I'm sure the youngest ref in the PL is about 34,im not sure why PGMOL put so much emphasis on experience 

Also not sure how they scout refs, there will be a few hundred kids every season who don't make it at a PL club and get released, I don't think the FA does a good enough job of pushing them towards staying in football without playing football, not sure if the desire is there either, not just reffing but coaching badges in general, I think there should be a safety net in academy football where they learn reffing, coaching, scouting, medical side of things on the side, fast track kids from PL academies that don't make it as a a player to be PL refs in their mid 20s and pay them £150-200k a year to do so

Edit - they should also have better support structure around them, a PL footballer has 30+ people working on sticking him on football pitch, managers, coaches, sports scientists, doctors, physios, dieticians, chef, etc etc psychologists... refs have none of that

Edited September 5, 2022 by villa4europe

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

I've said that before, I don't think refs are paid enough or we'll trained enough in the context of what the PL is

Premier League footballers are world class athletes in their prime and we wonder why 50 year old men with fitness first passes are struggling to keep up with them... I'm sure the youngest ref in the PL is about 34,im not sure why PGMOL put so much emphasis on experience 

Also not sure how they scout refs, there will be a few hundred kids every season who don't make it at a PL club and get released, I don't think the FA does a good enough job of pushing them towards staying in football without playing football, not sure if the desire is there either, not just reffing but coaching badges in general, I think there should be a safety net in academy football where they learn reffing, coaching, scouting, medical side of things on the side, fast track kids from PL academies that don't make it as a a player to be PL refs in their mid 20s and pay them £150-200k a year to do so

Agreed with every word. the blocker of course is that PGMOL aren't going to support their entire cast of "elite" refs being put in the bin.

[Tayls]

One other thing I want officials to put and end to is blatant time wasting from keepers. There is just no need for them to catch a ball and then drop to the floor unnecessarily. Instant booking in my view. Also the amount of stoppages towards the end now with fake injuries is becoming really tedious to watch. Football is shit now, isn’t it? 

[Marka Ragnos]

9 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

The more I think of all the decisions over this weekend the more I think football is corrupt.

It’s not either/or, IMHO. And it’s a very complex phenomenon. It also completely depends on how you define it.  If you mean the PL and the FA and criminal behavior, I don’t think generally that’s true at the moment. If you mean several other leagues, there’s proof. Incompetence and timidity and diffidence mimicking corruption is more likely with what we saw last weekend in the UK, I feel. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[Hornso]

12 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Wouldn't help this scenario, but I have championed for years just letting the physio come on and treat players who are injured while the game goes on around them. it happens in other sports.

The ref would still have the power to stop the game if it's serious, or if it's to a goalkeeper which is obviously a little different.

But players would soon stop rolling around feigning injury if they put their team at a disadvantage by doing it.

 

Yeah sometimes a player would be genuinely injured and their team would be at a disadvantage. Tough shit. It happens

I think this is a great idea. In the local code of football here the game stops if a stretcher comes out or if somebody is bleeding.

Say the game only stops if the player has to be stretchered off and if the stretcher comes onto the field, to avoid time wasting,  the player either has to be substituted or spend X amount of minutes off the pitch to prevent its abuse.

[Genie]

Not only about 20 yards onside he was in his own half when the pass was made  

Edited September 6, 2022 by Genie

[fightoffyour]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Not only about 20 yards onside he was in his own half when the pass was made  

This penalty in the replies is worth posting too

 

[Genie]

2 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

This penalty in the replies is worth posting too

 

There’s often absolutely awful decisions made at junior level.

The FA go big on respect etc but sometimes the mind absolutely boggles at some of the ridiculous calls the ref or linesmen make.

My lad played in a game last year. They were 3-0 down then got one back with about 10 mins go. Then another. Then a third, 3-3 with only 1 or 2 mins left. 

Then, back post cross, absolute scenes it’s another goal. Linesman flag was up, there was nothing wrong it but it was ruled out. A lot of anger.

Then unbelievably, lad goes through, cuts it back for another winner, everyone is going crazy.. ..same **** idiot flag up AGAIN. 

I’m not joking there was almost a riot. The manager got a red card. Linesman almost got battered for robbing the kids of a memorable win.

Edit: To be clear, the linesman was their coach. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Genie

[Brumstopdogs]

@rjw63

[rjw63]

39 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

@rjw63

Yes please

[Zatman]

Why were Chelsea allowed 4 different sub opportunities yesterday when it should just be 3 sub chances

[Davkaus]

20 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Why were Chelsea allowed 4 different sub opportunities yesterday when it should just be 3 sub chances

Additional subs are allowed at half time without counting as one of the 3 sub opportunities

[Marka Ragnos]

Seriously,  what does this mean? What happened? This statement is so perfectly opaque. It seems to be saying that someone complained about nothing, and so nothing will happen, but that something was alleged in an honest way.

Quote

Following an investigation into an allegation received by The FA in the Premier League fixture between Arsenal FC and Liverpool FC on Sunday 9 October 2022, The FA can confirm that it will not be taking any disciplinary action.

 

[Davkaus]

Gabriel thought Henderson said something, and ran to the referee. We don't know what.