Stevo985 Posted November 22, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2022 On 15/11/2022 at 12:54, Demitri_C said: Isnt that offside?? Is this a real question? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Is this a real question? Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 22, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2022 Just now, Demitri_C said: Obviously No it's not offside. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: No it's not offside. Obviously. And in case anyone is wondering why, the reason is you can't be offside from an opposition pass. Similar to if a defender gets his head to a cross and you are in an offside position at the time (but were not offside for the initial cross) then you can't be offside. This is just that. Now gamesmanship versus sportsmanship, and more pertinently, leaving the field of play and coming back on without the referee's permission in this particular scenario gives the referee enough wiggle room to disallow it possibly. But I think by the letter of the law, apart from it being sneaky, it's probably legal and the goalkeeper has to take it on the chin and learn to be more aware. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, BOF said: And in case anyone is wondering why, the reason is you can't be offside from an opposition pass. Similar to if a defender gets his head to a cross and you are in an offside position at the time (but were not offside for the initial cross) then you can't be offside. This is just that. Now gamesmanship versus sportsmanship, and more pertinently, leaving the field of play and coming back on without the referee's permission in this particular scenario gives the referee enough wiggle room to disallow it possibly. But I think by the letter of the law, apart from it being sneaky, it's probably legal and the goalkeeper has to take it on the chin and learn to be more aware. So its not that obvious then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: So its not that obvious then No. It is obvious that he's not offside, which was the entirety of your original question. I said after that that the ref might decide to try and cite gamesmanship in some way if he wanted to be pernickety and call it a foul, but that's completely unrelated to it being offside, which it isn't. Now if you want to shift your own goalposts to save face then fire away 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 minute ago, BOF said: No. It is obvious that he's not offside, which was the entirety of your original question. I said after that that the ref might decide to try and cite gamesmanship in some way if he wanted to be pernickety and call it a foul, but that's completely unrelated to it being offside, which it isn't. Now if you want to shift your own goalposts to save face then fire away Yeah but if it was obvious it wouldn't need explaining to that extent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 22, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2022 Just now, Demitri_C said: Yeah but if it was obvious it wouldn't need explaining to that extent You overestimate the average human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 @BOFim just ball busting you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 One of the FIFA TSG has called Ronaldo a "total genius" for his dive to win a penalty. The game is beyond saving when people at the top think that manufacturing contact and throwing yourself to the floor is something to applaud rather than condemn. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Davkaus said: One of the FIFA TSG has called Ronaldo a "total genius" for his dive to win a penalty. The game is beyond saving when people at the top think that manufacturing contact and throwing yourself to the floor is something to applaud rather than condemn. The contact wasn't enough to cause that fall and the defender got a good foot on the ball They've made a good tackle a foul because they would rather have the outcome of a star player scoring a goal It was a terrible decision Edit - FWIW I don't think he even manufactured the contact, I think that's a completely natural comi g together that occurs hundreds of times per match, it's still a contact sport Edited November 26, 2022 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) Was an interesting situation before the Australia goal that they talked about in the studio after the game with retired ref Jonas Karlsson. They showed a replay of the ref tripping a Tunisian player who was tracking the Aussie player in possession. By mistake of course. The ref let them play on and Australia scored a few seconds later. Apparently there is nothing specific in the rules about refs tripping or obstructing a player so it's a situation to situation thing if the ref feels like stopping play or not. Does say you should stop play if you are interfering. Seems kinda odd since they are told to stop play if the ball hits them. The Tunisian player was really upset about it but non of his teammates seemed to have noticed the situation. Didn't watch the game so no idea if the commentators picked up on it as it happened. Edit: The ref in the Swedish studio thinks it should have been ruled out. Edited November 26, 2022 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 3 hours ago, sne said: Was an interesting situation before the Australia goal that they talked about in the studio after the game with retired ref Jonas Karlsson. They showed a replay of the ref tripping a Tunisian player who was tracking the Aussie player in possession. By mistake of course. The ref let them play on and Australia scored a few seconds later. Apparently there is nothing specific in the rules about refs tripping or obstructing a player so it's a situation to situation thing if the ref feels like stopping play or not. Does say you should stop play if you are interfering. Seems kinda odd since they are told to stop play if the ball hits them. The Tunisian player was really upset about it but non of his teammates seemed to have noticed the situation. Didn't watch the game so no idea if the commentators picked up on it as it happened. Edit: The ref in the Swedish studio thinks it should have been ruled out. The Diego Carlos rule is to send off the Tunisian player 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I’m not sure why it never occurred to me before @a-k mentioned it in the world cup match thread and it makes perfect sense. Why don’t they scrap penalties for fouls/handballs in the penalty area? It would stop the diving and cheating immediately. Issue an indirect free kick instead. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 26/11/2022 at 16:34, Zatman said: The Diego Carlos rule is to send off the Tunisian player Forgot all about that, it essentially ended the ref's career, and rightly so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m not sure why it never occurred to me before @a-k mentioned it in the world cup match thread and it makes perfect sense. Why don’t they scrap penalties for fouls/handballs in the penalty area? It would stop the diving and cheating immediately. Issue an indirect free kick instead. Job done. I don't think all should be indirect FKs, but for example in the POR - URU match, did that accidental handball affect play? Yes (well, maybe not if the rat didn't stop playing to complain to the ref). Did it prevent POR from scoring? Hard to say, at least not obviously or intentionally. So, why reward that with a pen? I can understand cases like the Suarez handball in 2010 or if a player is about to shoot and is taken out, but to give any "foul" in the box as a penalty, such as Kane running towards the touchline vs Cash? Nah. Of course, then we have to use the referee's judgement on what may constitute a pen vs an indirect FK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m not sure why it never occurred to me before @a-k mentioned it in the world cup match thread and it makes perfect sense. Why don’t they scrap penalties for fouls/handballs in the penalty area? It would stop the diving and cheating immediately. Issue an indirect free kick instead. Job done. Not the worst idea but think only some issues should not be a penalty. The penalty Digne conceded I think when it was a handball from a header about a yard away this should be an indirect free kick for examplet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, a-k said: I don't think all should be indirect FKs, but for example in the POR - URU match, did that accidental handball affect play? Yes (well, maybe not if the rat didn't stop playing to complain to the ref). Did it prevent POR from scoring? Hard to say, at least not obviously or intentionally. So, why reward that with a pen? I can understand cases like the Suarez handball in 2010 or if a player is about to shoot and is taken out, but to give any "foul" in the box as a penalty, such as Kane running towards the touchline vs Cash? Nah. Of course, then we have to use the referee's judgement on what may constitute a pen vs an indirect FK... Yeah, I’ve just taken the handball thing a step further. Diving in the box is a huge problem for the game, so why not take away the incentive? I’d be all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Genie said: Yeah, I’ve just taken the handball thing a step further. Diving in the box is a huge problem for the game, so why not take away the incentive? I’d be all for it. Doesn't this just incentivise bringing people down in the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: Not the worst idea but think only some issues should not be a penalty. The penalty Digne conceded I think when it was a handball from a header about a yard away this should be an indirect free kick for examplet Does the Digne one even need to be an offence? We've got all these **** rules about silhouettes but I can't say it's helping actually clamp down on ones which are deliberate, which is what the offence is supposed to be. You could just call all accidental handball an IFK, but I don't see what's gained from it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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