Formula One - 2021

[Genie]

Despite the outcome of the race Toto let his hair down later in the evening 

 

[a m ole]

17 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Morning all. So I slept on this and am still feeling angry.  I had quite a long hiatus from following F1 as frankly I was finding it a bit boring.  Over lockdown I watched drive to survive and got back into the drama and began to understand a bunch more of the personalities, so gave this season a chance.  And what a season it was to give a chance to.  It was brilliant and competitive and edgy, the story to get the last race was one of the most compelling in any sport for a long time.  Cards on the table, I do like Lewis, I respect his ability and his longevity, his skills are off the chart, but I'm not a die hard fanboy, I just like the way he drives.  Max I like less, again based mainly on the way he drives.  I think he drives in a reckless and juvenile way.  He is obviously brilliant, but I don't think he understands that other cars don't have to jump out of his way just because he is there.

However, the combination of the reckless young talent and the mature elder statesman jousting away at the front of the pack made for thrilling racing.  The threat of contact, the speed, the undoubted skill of both drivers, the ebb and flow of the championship lead totally dragged me back into the sport.  Then the last race happened, and it was brilliant too.  Full of drama and skill, but with 6 laps to go it was clear who was the better driver on the day and which team had the better car.  The story had an end, and it had taken a mighty effort of consecutive wins by Lewis to get over the line first.  Then a Williams crashes and the cars bunch up behind the safety car and the heart starts racing again, the result is in jeopardy. But as the rules are explained by the commentary team a bit of excitement goes out of me.  Chances are the race will finish under the safety car, it is not thrilling, but probably fair, the race had already become a bit of a procession anyway.  We even hear Masi say that the lapped cars will not be allowed to go past on the radio.

Then with seconds to go on the penultimate lap the rules of the sport change.  It is one of my biggest WTF moments in any sport ever.  I tuned in to watch 2 generational talents sort out who is the best on the track.  I didn't tune in to watch motor sports entertainment produced by Michael Masi.  The final lap drama was not 'racing' as Masi tried to make out, it was produced entertainment more akin to an episode of Top Gear with Clarkson sinking an amphibious car totally by accident.  If the last lap is what Masi thinks motor racing is really all about then I think he fundamentally misunderstands the sport.  There could only be one result after that decision, and it feels artificial.

It is a fundamental of any sport that the rules don't change during the competition.  I don't know what calculations were going on in the Mercedes garage regarding bringing Lewis in to get new tires, but it can't have included the race director changing the rules for the last lap. 

I don't care about Red Bull celebrating, they have been chasing this title for years and the pent-up frustration of the perpetual second place must be overwhelming, I can't blame them for letting it out.  I don't Blame Toto for feeling robbed and behaving like he has.  He has been robbed.  Lewis being as calm and respectful as he was after getting out of his car has done nothing but enhance his reputation with me.  I have no idea how he managed to be so magnanimous after yesterday's events, and I don't know many people who could be.

Me, I still feel that hole in my sporting soul that natural justice was not achieved and the best racer on the day came second.  Sometimes a tire bursts, or an engine fails and you move on as that is racing.  When a result is twisted thanks to poor officiating, the sting stays a little longer and the stain on the sport takes a little longer to wash out. 

FWIW I don't think there is any great conspiracy about the decision.  I think Masi, under all sorts of pressure, made a poor choice.

The top gear analogy is great

[Phil Silvers]

Max cannot say that he won it fair and square, he was beaten fair and square and that will always get thrown around the paddock until he does win it the right way. As much as he is a complete bell, I do sympathize with his situation a little as it was all taken out of the drivers/teams hands.

 

[AVFCDAN]

23 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Me, I still feel that hole in my sporting soul that natural justice was not achieved and the best racer on the day came second.  Sometimes a tire bursts, or an engine fails and you move on as that is racing.  When a result is twisted thanks to poor officiating, the sting stays a little longer and the stain on the sport takes a little longer to wash out. 

Thats pretty much it for me. I don't have any issue with Verstappen being champion, in fact over the course of the season he probably deserved it but on the day, in that race, Lewis was dominating, he deserved the win and therefore the title, its as simple as that. It wasn't a team mistake, unlucky snap weather or most importantly driver issues it was literally the random set of rules the race director decided to follow, based on that it just doesn't feel fair.

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said:

Thats pretty much it for me. I don't have any issue with Verstappen being champion, in fact over the course of the season he probably deserved it but on the day, in that race, Lewis was dominating, he deserved the win and therefore the title, its as simple as that. It wasn't a team mistake, unlucky snap weather or most importantly driver issues it was literally the random set of rules the race director decided to follow, based on that it just doesn't feel fair.

Yep 100%

Red Bull took the gamble to pit Max onto softs, and then the race director made up a rule to make it as easy as possible for Max to take advantage.

It's a staggering end to the season

[Nigel]

36 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m not sure, I think a lot of people will have become disillusioned with it all. It’s a bit like VAR meddling in football. 
 

I understand this and I'm sure you are right with some of the existing fans (although we all know that saying and doing are very different things).

However this whole fiasco has become a bit passionate, bringing in people like myself who couldn't give a monkeys about f1 before.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing how this plays out now, more so its actually intrigued me to see how this will affect the new season. 

New fans have been made on far less!

[mykeyb]

37 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Morning all. So I slept on this and am still feeling angry.  I had quite a long hiatus from following F1 as frankly I was finding it a bit boring.  Over lockdown I watched drive to survive and got back into the drama and began to understand a bunch more of the personalities, so gave this season a chance.  And what a season it was to give a chance to.  It was brilliant and competitive and edgy, the story to get the last race was one of the most compelling in any sport for a long time.  Cards on the table, I do like Lewis, I respect his ability and his longevity, his skills are off the chart, but I'm not a die hard fanboy, I just like the way he drives.  Max I like less, again based mainly on the way he drives.  I think he drives in a reckless and juvenile way.  He is obviously brilliant, but I don't think he understands that other cars don't have to jump out of his way just because he is there.

However, the combination of the reckless young talent and the mature elder statesman jousting away at the front of the pack made for thrilling racing.  The threat of contact, the speed, the undoubted skill of both drivers, the ebb and flow of the championship lead totally dragged me back into the sport.  Then the last race happened, and it was brilliant too.  Full of drama and skill, but with 6 laps to go it was clear who was the better driver on the day and which team had the better car.  The story had an end, and it had taken a mighty effort of consecutive wins by Lewis to get over the line first.  Then a Williams crashes and the cars bunch up behind the safety car and the heart starts racing again, the result is in jeopardy. But as the rules are explained by the commentary team a bit of excitement goes out of me.  Chances are the race will finish under the safety car, it is not thrilling, but probably fair, the race had already become a bit of a procession anyway.  We even hear Masi say that the lapped cars will not be allowed to go past on the radio.

Then with seconds to go on the penultimate lap the rules of the sport change.  It is one of my biggest WTF moments in any sport ever.  I tuned in to watch 2 generational talents sort out who is the best on the track.  I didn't tune in to watch motor sports entertainment produced by Michael Masi.  The final lap drama was not 'racing' as Masi tried to make out, it was produced entertainment more akin to an episode of Top Gear with Clarkson sinking an amphibious car totally by accident.  If the last lap is what Masi thinks motor racing is really all about then I think he fundamentally misunderstands the sport.  There could only be one result after that decision, and it feels artificial.

It is a fundamental of any sport that the rules don't change during the competition.  I don't know what calculations were going on in the Mercedes garage regarding bringing Lewis in to get new tires, but it can't have included the race director changing the rules for the last lap. 

I don't care about Red Bull celebrating, they have been chasing this title for years and the pent-up frustration of the perpetual second place must be overwhelming, I can't blame them for letting it out.  I don't Blame Toto for feeling robbed and behaving like he has.  He has been robbed.  Lewis being as calm and respectful as he was after getting out of his car has done nothing but enhance his reputation with me.  I have no idea how he managed to be so magnanimous after yesterday's events, and I don't know many people who could be.

Me, I still feel that hole in my sporting soul that natural justice was not achieved and the best racer on the day came second.  Sometimes a tire bursts, or an engine fails and you move on as that is racing.  When a result is twisted thanks to poor officiating, the sting stays a little longer and the stain on the sport takes a little longer to wash out. 

FWIW I don't think there is any great conspiracy about the decision.  I think Masi, under all sorts of pressure, made a poor choice.

Totally agree Straggler.

 

I wonder if Mercedes will actually appeal as they have only served notice of their intent.

I think what happened yesterday was wrong and so the race result should be deemed invalid. No side gets the dirty end of the stick and the championship is decided based on the standings as of 1 oclock yesterday. I am guessing that Lewis fans wont agree for obvious reasons but then I am not sure what other options are available.

[mykeyb]

20 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Max cannot say that he won it fair and square, he was beaten fair and square and that will always get thrown around the paddock until he does win it the right way. As much as he is a complete bell, I do sympathize with his situation a little as it was all taken out of the drivers/teams hands.

 

But he can, he or Red Bull didnt cheat. Mistakes were made but not by either team.

[YouUnastanFren]

On 29/03/2021 at 11:31, BOF said:

Masi has shown a few times that he's a bit of an idiot. Letting cars go out on track last season to start a session when a car was being retrieved.  Also the alleged shorter warning times for safety cars ending which contributed towards  the Mugello pile-up.  The buck stops with him and if the message isn't clear coming from the FIA - and it clearly **** wasn't in this case - then he needs to accept the blame.  Bahrain is a bit of a mess and it's a less than savoury destination so I'm glad it's over with now.

Looking back at the last few seasons Masi's ineptitude has been clear for all to see.

This @BOFpost is from March.

At this point his credibility is nil and his position is untenable imho.

[sidcow]

17 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

But he can, he or Red Bull didnt cheat. Mistakes were made but not by either team.

Oh come on.  He was 14 seconds behind with 4 laps left.  He was WELL beaten and deep down he knows it.

[Genie]

Just now, sidcow said:

Oh come on.  He was 14 seconds behind with 4 laps left.  He was WELL beaten and deep down he knows it.

Horner needed a miracle, and got one.

How often does a perfect crash, pit lane open, nobody behind so you can make a free stop, safety car and then the icing on the cake, the officials **** up in your favour too. It’s like a triple miracle.

[Straggler]

19 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Totally agree Straggler.

 

I wonder if Mercedes will actually appeal as they have only served notice of their intent.

I think what happened yesterday was wrong and so the race result should be deemed invalid. No side gets the dirty end of the stick and the championship is decided based on the standings as of 1 oclock yesterday. I am guessing that Lewis fans wont agree for obvious reasons but then I am not sure what other options are available.

Personally, I wouldn't appeal.  The race is run, champagne popped, the only way to ruin the sport more now is to award the Championship to a different driver in a court.  I would like for the FIA to admit that they cocked up and to fire Masi, or at least accept his resignation.  I know they can't really say they broke the rules as it leaves them open to legal action, but they can at least admit that inconsistent application of the rules impacted the race and that they will try to do better next season.  If they don't admit that the decision was a poor one, then we are open to it happening again.

[Stevo985]

39 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

I think what happened yesterday was wrong and so the race result should be deemed invalid. No side gets the dirty end of the stick and the championship is decided based on the standings as of 1 oclock yesterday. I am guessing that Lewis fans wont agree for obvious reasons but then I am not sure what other options are available.

I'm not a Lewis fan but that's hardly a fair outcome either.

I don't think they should overturn the result anyway. The end of the race was a farce but it's done now. 

Masi should go though

[Genie]

What if Mercedes decide not to renew Lewis’s contract? He’ll be extra pissed off not to have the 8th title. 

[sidcow]

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not a Lewis fan but that's hardly a fair outcome either.

I don't think they should overturn the result anyway. The end of the race was a farce but it's done now. 

Masi should go though

Yeah, thanks to his incompetence there is now NO satisfactory way of ending it.

If he'd just stuck to their own rules there would have been a processional finish to a race that had at least been raced properly.  And to be honest, the race was already won, what was so wrong with a procession at the end?  The racing has effectively been done and the winner was clear.  At least this way there is no controversy.

Is it the Tour De France where the whole of the final day is just a procession anyway?  No one complains about that or thinks it's less of a contest for it.

Edited December 13, 2021 by sidcow

[Genie]

The option for grand stand finish was red flag, then 5 laps of racing.

The option for sensible finish was under the safety car if they couldn’t clear all the lapped cars in time.

Its mental they found another option and ruined the day.

[Lichfield Dean]

42 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Oh come on.  He was 14 seconds behind with 4 laps left.  He was WELL beaten and deep down he knows it.

Yes but if the crash had happened a lap or two earlier and there had been time for normal safety car procedures then we'd still have had Max on new tyres behind Lewis on old tyres at a restart with one or two laps remaining. That is a perfectly normal situation. I don't really buy into this argument that Max was well beaten by so many seconds, because safety cars always mess up big leads, that's just the luck of the draw.

The only issue is that in this particular case the race should have finished under safety car conditions.

[ozvillafan]

28 minutes ago, Genie said:

The option for grand stand finish was red flag, then 5 laps of racing.

The option for sensible finish was under the safety car if they couldn’t clear all the lapped cars in time.

Its mental they found another option and ruined the day.

So he shouldn't make up rules as he goes along.....

.... but he should have red flagged a race that only required a safety car?

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Yes but if the crash had happened a lap or two earlier and there had been time for normal safety car procedures then we'd still have had Max on new tyres behind Lewis on old tyres at a restart with one or two laps remaining. That is a perfectly normal situation. I don't really buy into this argument that Max was well beaten by so many seconds, because safety cars always mess up big leads, that's just the luck of the draw.

The only issue is that in this particular case the race should have finished under safety car conditions.

But if the rules were that this WAS the normal procedure and the last lap would be raced, Mercedes would have also brought Lewis in to change his tyres.  He would still have come out ahead of Max because of his 15 second lead and also had the fresh tyres.

Max had nothing to lose, he was never going to catch up so he changed tyres.  Equally if those were the normal rules Lewis would have used his 14 seconds to change but Max actually might not have gone in because then he WOULD have had something to lose, He would probably have actually been ahead of Lewis then but with himself on older tyre.  Not attractive but still better than the absolutely no way to win situation he had before.

So by doing what happened they changed the situation from one guaranteed winner who has attained that by winning 99% of the race and replaced him with a guaranteed winner who artificially attained that ion 1% of the race and entirely on their choice.

[OutByEaster?]

Was it Masa's decision to have a two lap Belgian Grand Prix that gave Verstappen a win by virtue of being on pole?