Transgenderism

[Chindie]

To save the discussion getting caught up elsewhere...

Trans causes are becoming more known about and more relevant with it. Of course it's brought with it a pushback - infamously from JK Rowling setting her legacy on fire to add like this

Quote

Watch Dogs: Legion has cut a voice appearance from the ‘gender critical’ journalist Helen Lewis over her views on transgender people.

 

Lewis, a columnist for The Atlantic and a former New Statesman journalist, was one of many figures from the British media industry drawn on as voice talent to populate in-world podcasts and radio stations in the game, which is set in a dystopian futuristic version of London.

...which has lead to a few other voices being raised in dissent. Like this

And of course Graham Linehan has basically ruined his life in the 'debate'.

[Seat68]

Can I ask what JKR said and why it was offensive. I really am unsure. No sealioning I promise. 

[villa4europe]

side stepping the issue slightly here but with the last couple of years they've had ubisoft are in no position to put themselves in slightly in to what some might consider a grey area

[Mark Albrighton]

7 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Can I ask what JKR said and why it was offensive. I really am unsure. No sealioning I promise. 

I *think* there was an article or some such about “people who menstruate” and she said something along the lines of “ ‘people who menstruate’....think we used to have a name for those...wuman? woomun?”

Or something similar to that. So basically it was like she was saying if you don’t menstruate then you’re not a woman. Or at least that’s how some in the trans community took it to mean.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Mark Albrighton

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

side stepping the issue slightly here but with the last couple of years they've had ubisoft are in no position to put themselves in slightly in to what some might consider a grey area

Ubisoft are absolutely in the 'glass houses throwing stones' position. But yes, a different discussion.

[mjmooney]

Minefield. 

My younger daughter works (in an administrative role) for the NHS Gender Identity Development Service.  

Always in the news. 

[StefanAVFC]

Not 100% related to the topic, but I wonder if 1980s Villatalk would have a thread titled 'the gays' or 1960s American Villatalk 'The Coloureds'. Interesting how there's always a social conflict around a certain group. I wonder if in x years, people will be baffled how we ever made such an issue out of it.

[bickster]

22 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Not 100% related to the topic, but I wonder if 1980s Villatalk would have a thread titled 'the gays' or 1960s American Villatalk 'The Coloureds'. Interesting how there's always a social conflict around a certain group. I wonder if in x years, people will be baffled how we ever made such an issue out of it.

It's also really ironic that Villa Fans wouldn't have hated small heath as much either

[Paddywhack]

I think this is one of those topics where I'll read what a few of more experienced, respected and intelligent VTers have to say, steal their opinions and pass them off as my own thoughts elsewhere.

[Follyfoot]

On 11/11/2020 at 13:03, Seat68 said:

Can I ask what JKR said and why it was offensive. I really am unsure. No sealioning I promise. 

Quote

on June 6, Rowling retweeted an op-ed piece that discussed “people who menstruate,” apparently taking issue with the fact that the story did not use the word women. “‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?,” she wrote.

That initial tweet garnered a lot of backlash, but Rowling did not relent and wrote about her views in more detail. “If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth,” she tweeted. “The idea that women like me, who’ve been empathetic to trans people for decades, feeling kinship because they’re vulnerable in the same way as women—i.e., to male violence—‘hate’ trans people because they think sex is real and has lived consequences—is a nonsense."

She continued, “I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so.”

Then, on June 10, Rowling published a lengthy post on her website and sent out a tweet that read “TERF Wars.” (TERF is an acronym that stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist.)

This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity. I write this without any desire to add to that toxicity,” she wrote. “For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.”

 

 

[GarethRDR]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

And of course Graham Linehan has basically ruined his life in the 'debate'.

If I remember rightly wasn't Linehan particularly nasty?  Whipping up some online frenzy to oppose funding for a support charity, I think.

Edited November 11, 2020 by GarethRDR

[ThunderPower_14]

It is a complete load of shit that "free speech" must be supported at all costs in these sorts of situations in the way that Dunt is arguing. There is only a "debate" because transphobes continue to be given public platforms to say transphobic things in the name of "balance". Nobody would be defending the "free speech" of someone spouting similarly hateful stuff from a racist or homophobic perspective in 2020. Those people would stop being given airtime unless they worked for Murdoch.

A video game publisher does not have to give someone with views like that a job or a platform and shouldn't be bullied into doing so. Hate speech or fearmongering about transpeople is absolutely harmful. Lewis's comments were harmful. She should have to live with the consequences of the fact that she's expressed transphobic views and that people don't like it. Businesses not wanting to be associated with her is part of that.

Deplatforming works. Look at the likes of Milo Yiannopoulos or Graham Linehan.

[Chindie]

8 minutes ago, GarethRDR said:

If I remember rightly wasn't Linehan particularly nasty?  Whipping up some online frenzy to oppose funding for a support charity, I think.

He went off the deep end with it. Attacking the Mermaids charity and causing them to lose funding, setting of mobs of followers, allegedly having some sock puppet accounts... eventually he was literally raving about it on Twitter at 4 in the morning having been only going on about it all day beforehand. Got banned in the end.

Really reflected badly on him.

[ThunderPower_14]

5 minutes ago, GarethRDR said:

If I remember rightly wasn't Linehan particularly nasty?  Whipping up some online frenzy to oppose funding for a support charity, I think.

Yep, initially getting mad at the National Lottery for putting money towards Mermaids, a charity that supports trans kids. Comparing giving trans kids hormone therapy to Nazi eugenics, that sort of heinous shit.

In response, leftist gaming Youtuber HBomberguy conducted a 57 hour Donkey Kong livestream marathon to raise money for Mermaids, and Linehan whipped himself into a frenzy on twitter about it, raising enormous awareness, which ended up raising £264,000 for the charity.

 

[LondonLax]

I’ve not really dipped my toe in these discussions but from what I’ve seen online it often seems to be old school feminists arguing against the modern thinking on trans people. 

[sharkyvilla]

Did the Linehan thing stem from that episode of the IT Crowd with Douglas dating the trans woman?  I read it got banned from the streaming services.  I found that episode funny myself, I'm not sure whether I should feel guilty for it.  It must be hard for people growing up thinking you're one sex but physically the other, I have a lot of sympathy for those who have had to hide it all their life and it's positive that people are gradually more accepting of it.  I'm not sure of the science behind it tbh.  What pissed me off was there was a girl who I think was transitioning to male at my old work and people were kicking up a stink about which toilet he could use, people seem to think that they're some sort of sexual pervert that can't be trusted to go to the loo without molesting someone.

[Sam-AVFC]

On 11/11/2020 at 14:06, Follyfoot said:

on June 6, Rowling retweeted an op-ed piece that discussed “people who menstruate,” apparently taking issue with the fact that the story did not use the word women. “‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?,” she wrote.

I think that happened a few years after JK Rowling was considered controversial. It seems to have gone on for quite a long time, but I've got no idea how it started. 

[Paddywhack]

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Did the Linehan thing stem from that episode of the IT Crowd with Douglas dating the trans woman?  I read it got banned from the streaming services.  I found that episode funny myself, I'm not sure whether I should feel guilty for it.  It must be hard for people growing up thinking you're one sex but physically the other, I have a lot of sympathy for those who have had to hide it all their life and it's positive that people are gradually more accepting of it.  I'm not sure of the science behind it tbh.  What pissed me off was there was a girl who I think was transitioning to male at my old work and people were kicking up a stink about which toilet he could use, people seem to think that they're some sort of sexual pervert that can't be trusted to go to the loo without molesting someone.

Which is what JK Rowling's new novel is about, I believe? A man having a sex change, going in to ladies toilets and killing them or whatever, I think.

Because, obviously without going through the procedure, there's no way they'd be able to get through that toilet door.

[sharkyvilla]

1 minute ago, Paddywhack said:

Which is what JK Rowling's new novel is about, I believe? A man having a sex change, going in to ladies toilets and killing them or whatever, I think.

Because, obviously without going through the procedure, there's no way they'd be able to get through that toilet door.

Well I hope it's not about that as I'm about a quarter of the way through her latest Strike novel.

[Follyfoot]

Honestly do not know enough about or the  science behind it to form any sort of opinion other than I did find it strange reading a newspaper article a few years ago about a 40 odd year-old lorry driver with a load of kids admitting to the fact he was a six-year-old girl trapped inside his body who started wearing dresses and his hair in pigtails who was adopted on that basis by a transgender family