MaVilla Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 11 hours ago, villa4europe said: Scanned over the various player ratings in the rags, it's 5s and 6s Guardian said England are disconnected without kane Daily mail said he's just not the same player for England as he is for villa Neither mentioned the fault of that being big nose... no media would mention it, Sh*tgate is a media darling, not one of them would ever speak against him tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 minutes ago, MaVilla said: no media would mention it, Sh*tgate is a media darling, not one of them would ever speak against him tbh. I think there is an added laziness to it too, we looked toothless and didn't create much upfront largely due to tactical ineptness which they could analyse and slaughter Southgate in a way that the majority of the general public would be bored by, or they could just write an overly simplistic piece about us not scoring because world class Kane wasn't there,l too many heads nod along to the 2nd one for them ever to bother with the 1st They could also write a piece on us looking disjointed without Kane because Southgate overplays kane in needless games vs the lesser teams in the qualifiers but they won't do that either 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, villa4europe said: I think there is an added laziness to it too, we looked toothless and didn't create much upfront largely due to tactical ineptness which they could analyse and slaughter Southgate in a way that the majority of the general public would be bored by, or they could just write an overly simplistic piece about us not scoring because world class Kane wasn't there,l too many heads nod along to the 2nd one for them ever to bother with the 1st They could also write a piece on us looking disjointed without Kane because Southgate overplays kane in needless games vs the lesser teams in the qualifiers but they won't do that either ye. the fact is, Southgate has the tactical nouse of an under 12s coach, im entirely not surprised that he doesnt/cant get the best out of probably the best England squad in half a century. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 12 hours ago, villa4europe said: Scanned over the various player ratings in the rags, it's 5s and 6s Guardian said England are disconnected without kane Daily mail said he's just not the same player for England as he is for villa Neither mentioned the fault of that being big nose... Also, Watkins wasn’t the same player under Gerrard as under Emery. So there it is again…the manager and the tactics/approach making a difference to how effective the player can be. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I saw one review of Ollie online that said Toney is the better all round footballer. Ive only ever seen Toney play against us so I'm not sure how true that is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 25 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25 Ollie is going from a situation where he knows his role in the team inside out, he also knows where the other players around him are going to be in any given situation. He has had every detail meticulously worked through with him and his team mates by a world class coach. Then he finds himself in a situation where a tactically dated coach not at the same level as Emery chucks him into a system that was created for Kane, with other players new to this system playing too, and is expected to instantly score or be called a flop. Not easy. Needs games and time with the squad before he gets judged but the Great British Press aren't interested in any kind of nuance. They have to sell papers to people who believed the big red bus and all the bullshit about straight bananas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, romavillan said: Ollie is going from a situation where he knows his role in the team inside out, he also knows where the other players around him are going to be in any given situation. He has had every detail meticulously worked through with him and his team mates by a world class coach. Then he finds himself in a situation where a tactically dated coach not at the same level as Emery chucks him into a system that was created for Kane, with other players new to this system playing too, and is expected to instantly score or be called a flop. Not easy. Needs games and time with the squad before he gets judged but the Great British Press aren't interested in any kind of nuance. They have to sell papers to people who believed the big red bus and all the bullshit about straight bananas While all of this is true. This is also the challenge of international football and often why we see static squads even when players are out of form. You will be playing with players you havent met before. You may not be playing a style of football you are used to. You may only get a limited amount of time to make an impact as other players are also waiting in the wings. Personally i dont think Ollie played well, he didnt get service, he did only get a small chance but its hard to look at that game and say he did well. Id also expect Toney to get a chance mid week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 25 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25 44 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: While all of this is true. This is also the challenge of international football and often why we see static squads even when players are out of form. You will be playing with players you havent met before. You may not be playing a style of football you are used to. You may only get a limited amount of time to make an impact as other players are also waiting in the wings. Personally i dont think Ollie played well, he didnt get service, he did only get a small chance but its hard to look at that game and say he did well. Id also expect Toney to get a chance mid week. No-one did well, maybe Bellingham had a decent game but other than that nothing, Foden was well out of the game, Gallagher and Rice were covering the same role. Chillwell was hopeless and McQuire was very lucky Brazil aren't that lethal. Gordon gave it go with no end product or a quality ball into the box. Our best chances came at corners and free kicks. To expect Ollie, or any striker to create or score in those circumstances is unrealistic. Ollies a confidence player at he's not going to build his confidence playing for England atm. We look a busted flush and won't get far in the Euros. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, tinker said: No-one did well, maybe Bellingham had a decent game but other than that nothing, Foden was well out of the game, Gallagher and Rice were covering the same role. Chillwell was hopeless and McQuire was very lucky Brazil aren't that lethal. Gordon gave it go with no end product or a quality ball into the box. Our best chances came at corners and free kicks. To expect Ollie, or any striker to create or score in those circumstances is unrealistic. Ollies a confidence player at he's not going to build his confidence playing for England atm. We look a busted flush and won't get far in the Euros. Yes, a very poor game for England. Some of the others you mention have the benefit of some strong performances to fall back on. Maguire and Pickford being two of those players. Ollie is unfortunately in the group that is playing for a place on the plane. I think we can all admit he didnt play his best game largely down to the way England play (and quality of the opposition). I could quite understand why Toney is more suited. Hes probably a bit closer to Kane in style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 In some ways it may be better for Ollie and Konsa to miss out. No way we win it under this clown and it’s going to be an almighty toxic mess when we do get knocked out to the first decent team we play in the knock out stages. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I know people like to be all dramatic and claim our players won't get picked for whatever reason, but unless Watkins has a disastrous end to the season whilst Toney shows stunning form, there's no way he won't be going to the Euros, it would cause a national outrage, everyone not just Villa fans, are of the opinion he should be going, and they're right, you only have to see his stats and how they compare to other options to see it's true Also he wasn't bad against Brazil, he had no service whatsoever, so unless people were expecting him to turn into the Brazilian Ronaldo and dribble past everyone there wasn't much he could do, England's creative players just didn't play well, at times it looked as if they were trying to play like a Man City type team but didn't really know how to, so many times they had chances to put the ball in the ball box but didn't, and that was even happening in injury time when England needed a goal to salvage a point The few times Watkins did get any kind of service he did well, put in a few dangrous crosses that would have been simple tap-ins if someoe had have been on the end of as they should have been, and also would have scored but for the block from the Brazilian defender 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 6 minutes ago, useless said: I know people like to be all dramatic and claim our players won't get picked for whatever reason, but unless Watkins has a disastrous end to the season whilst Toney shows stunning form, there's no way he won't be going to the Euros, it would cause a national outrage, everyone not just Villa fans, are of the opinion he should be going, and they're right, you only have to see his stats and how they compare to other options to see it's true FWIW, Southgate had no problem excluding Grealish when the clamour for him to be starting was far more vociferous than it ever will be for Watkins to be in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 There were plenty of non Villa fans who didn't want Grealish in the England squad, so Southgate was under no threat of a backlash in the event of not picking him. Also Grealish had much more competition in his postion than Watkins has, it's two completely different scenarios. Unless something major change happens, OW11 will be going to Euros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 5 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: In some ways it may be better for Ollie and Konsa to miss out. No way we win it under this clown and it’s going to be an almighty toxic mess when we do get knocked out to the first decent team we play in the knock out stages. I dont think its better, both are clearly desperate to play for England, we want them to be able to fulfull their dreams while playing for Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 6 minutes ago, useless said: There were plenty of non Villa fans who didn't want Grealish in the England squad, so Southgate was under no threat of a backlash in the event of not picking him. Also Grealish had much more competition in his postion than Watkins has, it's two completely different scenarios. Unless something major change happens, OW11 will be going to Euros I agree with Watkins going to the Euros, but there absolutely won't be a national outrage if he didn't go. You're misremembering the Grealish times btw. Everyone was piling him on him to start for England, particularly in the build up to rescheduled Euro 2020. People were adopting his haircut across the country. He was a genuine superstar and Southgate was taking a fair few pelters for not using him; pretty much to the extent that he had to take him to Euro 2020, even if he didn't then start him. That isn't there for Watkins. No-one wants him starting over Kane - he's just incredibly likely to make the squad and, if he doesn't, there'll be little more than a shrug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I for one am glad he's obviously so shit. I presume, as he's not good enough for England that none of the real, more important teams, you know, the ones that are just all round better clubs with real fans that really matter wont want him. etc 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 He wasn't very good, you can say it, it's fine and the simple truth about international football is, if you're not a prodigy or a truly world class player on the global stage - when you get a start you absolutely have to take the chance and Ollie didn't. Toney will get the nod and will see what he does. I think he'll still go the Euros fwiw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post turvontour Posted March 25 Popular Post Share Posted March 25 8 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: He wasn't very good, you can say it, it's fine and the simple truth about international football is, if you're not a prodigy or a truly world class player on the global stage - when you get a start you absolutely have to take the chance and Ollie didn't. Toney will get the nod and will see what he does. I think he'll still go the Euros fwiw. But it's not like Southgates heard he's a good striker and he needs to see him play in an England game to see if he is any good. He has the most assists in the Premier league, and second most goals behind Salah and ahead of Haaland. He's possibly the most complete forward in the toughest league in the world. It shouldn't be on him to prove anything, it should be on England to make it work. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: Yes, a very poor game for England. Some of the others you mention have the benefit of some strong performances to fall back on. Maguire and Pickford being two of those players. Ollie is unfortunately in the group that is playing for a place on the plane. I think we can all admit he didnt play his best game largely down to the way England play (and quality of the opposition). I could quite understand why Toney is more suited. Hes probably a bit closer to Kane in style of play. Maguire? He dropped a total clanger almost leading to a goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 6 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Maguire? He dropped a total clanger almost leading to a goal yes, the point was that he can be afforded a bad game, possibly numerous bad games because he has credit in the bank with Southgate. Probably 80% of the Euro squad is already known by England. Ollie is playing for a small number of remaining positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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