Indigo Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This is a fair point. I’ve seen fans say Grealish made him look better than he is but he only scored 3 more with him in the team! I think he looked better with Grealish in the side as there was less of a burden on him in terms of build-up play etc, as we were so heavily reliant on Jack. Watkins was a breath of fresh air that season as he offered real a work-rate and positional sense we were sorely lacking up front the previous year, and the way we largely set up and played highlighted that. Even at the time I thought he was limited in his overall game though, and it often showed despite for the most part being outweighed by the good he brought to the side, so I find it surprising that folk have turned on him so much now when it's a part of his game that has always been a bit lacking really. He has sides to his game that are effective at this level and for all the stick he's getting I don't think there's many strikers in the league that have more of an impact than him, but at the same time I think it's clear he has a ceiling that is restricted because of how clunky and limited he is in possession. Not like football fans to get hugely carried away in either direction though! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Indigo said: I think he looked better with Grealish in the side as there was less of a burden on him in terms of build-up play etc, as we were so heavily reliant on Jack. Watkins was a breath of fresh air that season as he offered real a work-rate and positional sense we were sorely lacking up front the previous year, and the way we largely set up and played highlighted that. Even at the time I thought he was limited in his overall game though, and it often showed despite for the most part being outweighed by the good he brought to the side, so I find it surprising that folk have turned on him so much now when it's a part of his game that has always been a bit lacking really. He has sides to his game that are effective at this level and for all the stick he's getting I don't think there's many strikers in the league that have more of an impact than him, but at the same time I think it's clear he has a ceiling that is restricted because of how clunky and limited he is in possession. Not like football fans to get hugely carried away in either direction though! I wonder if crowds are impacting his game ? Loose touches or mistakes you can brush off quite easily in an empty ground but when you have 40k fans on your back for an error it might get to you. Something he perhaps needs to learn to deal with better? Edited August 1, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Indigo said: I think he looked better with Grealish in the side as there was less of a burden on him in terms of build-up play etc, as we were so heavily reliant on Jack. Watkins was a breath of fresh air that season as he offered real a work-rate and positional sense we were sorely lacking up front the previous year, and the way we largely set up and played highlighted that. Even at the time I thought he was limited in his overall game though, and it often showed despite for the most part being outweighed by the good he brought to the side, so I find it surprising that folk have turned on him so much now when it's a part of his game that has always been a bit lacking really. He has sides to his game that are effective at this level and for all the stick he's getting I don't think there's many strikers in the league that have more of an impact than him, but at the same time I think it's clear he has a ceiling that is restricted because of how clunky and limited he is in possession. Not like football fans to get hugely carried away in either direction though! This. And replacing him will cost bucks and we'll mostly (possibly always) lose out to other teams. Edited August 1, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rolta said: Grealish got 12 assists in that season. That's hardly a player who made no impact. Watkins also had no striker competition that season too, but he had Ings last season, vastly reducing his time/being the main focus up front. Is this thread going to be your new Davis thread? Did I say Grealish made no impact? Why are people saying things in the last page or two I didn’t say. Grealish had a massive impact and if not injured for part of the season would’ve likely created even more and Ollie would’ve likely got an additional goal or two over what he did. The commentator I replied to said basically Grealish made him look better but even then only scored three more goals which is what I replied saying that Grealish was injured part of that season. Just going to ignore your final comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AntrimBlack Posted August 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2022 He is high energy, he hassles defenders, he scores a decent number of goals, he is easily good enough for where we are. You would see a better Watkins with Buendia in the side. Coutinho et al do not create enough chances to see him at his best. Also needs to be the main man, up front on his own. I confess, I like him and hope he improves this season. If not, he will be replaced. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Awkward one because if he doesn't start games, is there any point bringing him on? Maybe to hold a lead I suppose. He's not one that's going to nick you a goal. Get him in a room watching every goal he's scored in the last 5 years to inject some confidence into the lad. Up the Ollie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Condimentalist Posted August 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2022 I actually think we should use the strikers tactically, at least until one comes into form that makes them undroppable. In games we expect to dominate, I'd play Ings for his better link up play and finishing. In games where we may be playing more on the break, Watkins may be a better option for his physicality and pace. Ings should start at Bournemouth IMO. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, a m ole said: Every fan thinks their strikers miss loads of chances, because they get loads of chances. Even the best ones. It’s confirmation/familiarity bias. Yes it would be nice to have better, but better is the best strikers in the league. He’s not a weak link when in form. If you ever watch Salah he must take about 10 shots a game and doesn't pass it. But he will score probably one of them so he looks better than he is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 15 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Trezeguet was a PL player for us and there were times when I genuinely thought I could do better than him on the pitch. Look, they’re all very good footballers. You don’t get to that level without being an unbelievable football player so all my comments have to be taken relative to the level they’re at and who they’re playing with/against. Right now, Watkins control of a football is so, so poor compared to his peers. He’s gone backwards. I’m sure it wasn’t this bad when he signed. These are human beings not machines, as I said, Ollie looks to be a confidence player. If he gets off to a good start, could easily score 20 in a season. I will though caveat it by saying that he and Ings as a two does not work and impacts both negatively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Ollie Watkins can't and won't 'easily' or even with difficulty, score 20 goals a season. Uh uh, ain't happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 40 minutes ago, Zatman said: If you ever watch Salah he must take about 10 shots a game and doesn't pass it. But he will score probably one of them so he looks better than he is 118 league goals in 180 games for Liverpool, averaging 24 a season. "Looks better than he is". Bloody hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This is a fair point. I’ve seen fans say Grealish made him look better than he is but he only scored 3 more with him in the team! It’s not about his goal return but his general threat. Actually he hit post couple of times, scored some offside goals as well. It’s Grealish and the way we used to play which helped him a lot. Watkins isn’t bad at all, but at how we want to play and with creativity we have, I think Ings should have a try as he’s the more clever. Ings numbers were more than good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 27 minutes ago, Risso said: Ollie Watkins can't and won't 'easily' or even with difficulty, score 20 goals a season. Uh uh, ain't happening. Not a hope. However, the majority of strikers/players that play in the Salah/Son position will not score 20 goals. There will be about three or four players that will score 20 goals next season, at a push 5. There have been two seasons in the last 20 years (didn't bother going back any further) where 5 players have scored more than 20 goals in the league. The 20 goal a season striker is a myth, especially among mid to lower placed sides in the league. With our chance creation and overall scoring rate, anything above a 15 goal season would be fantastic for either of our strikers. And even that would be assuming that player plays almost all the minutes available, which I don't see happening. Unless of course, one of them goes on an amazing hot streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 I think we probably have to accept that Watkins has flaws to his game and isn't particularly strong at anything, but is pretty good at most things you'd want in a striker. He's pretty good at holding the ball up (when his control allows him...), he's pretty good aerially, he's pretty good at finding space, he's pretty good at scoring. He's not a top level striker, but he's got enough game to work on and certainly not worth binning off after 2 double figure seasons in a row. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Condimentalist said: I actually think we should use the strikers tactically, at least until one comes into form that makes them undroppable. In games we expect to dominate, I'd play Ings for his better link up play and finishing. In games where we may be playing more on the break, Watkins may be a better option for his physicality and pace. Ings should start at Bournemouth IMO. This is absolutely correct. Archer looms as a threat to both. He looked much better than Ings in the few mins v Rennes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 He should ask for a refund from the shooting/finishing coach that he hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Zatman said: If you ever watch Salah he must take about 10 shots a game and doesn't pass it. But he will score probably one of them so he looks better than he is This is an absolutely hilarious comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Indigo said: I think he looked better with Grealish in the side as there was less of a burden on him in terms of build-up play etc, as we were so heavily reliant on Jack. Watkins was a breath of fresh air that season as he offered real a work-rate and positional sense we were sorely lacking up front the previous year, and the way we largely set up and played highlighted that. Even at the time I thought he was limited in his overall game though, and it often showed despite for the most part being outweighed by the good he brought to the side, so I find it surprising that folk have turned on him so much now when it's a part of his game that has always been a bit lacking really. He has sides to his game that are effective at this level and for all the stick he's getting I don't think there's many strikers in the league that have more of an impact than him, but at the same time I think it's clear he has a ceiling that is restricted because of how clunky and limited he is in possession. Not like football fans to get hugely carried away in either direction though! This is the bit I disagree with. Ollie makes an impact only when we don't have the ball. He runs around, gives defenders less time than they might expect, puts them under a bit of pressure and wins us back possession. The trouble is his lack of impact when we have the ball. He doesn't make clever enough runs around the box to give our attacking midfielders an option or to make space for them. He isn't very good / strong when long aerial balls are played to him. He isn't strong enough / clever enough to hold up play long enough for our midfielders to join the attack. He doesn't have the vision / ability to spread play when he does have the ball. 11 - 15 goals would be pretty decent if he was also chipping in with 5 - 10 direct assists or at least fashioning chances for others. I think that as a CB he's too easy a player to play against. You don't see many defenders get really frustrated with him or getting beaten time and again. He doesn't terrorise a defence from an attacking perspective. I think there are several potentially less talented strikers who make playing against them really difficult / annoying for the opposition. If we are moving to try and become a possession based team the former of these (where Ollie's strengths lie) becomes significantly less important than the latter. Under the style of counter-attacking football that Dean favoured - the former was just as important (if not more so) than the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Steero113 said: This is an absolutely hilarious comment. Is it really? A lot of Liverpool fans wanted to keep Mane over Salah for that reason Salah XG is worse than Watkins and he is taking nearly 3 shots more a game including penalties If we watched Salah or Tammy every game we would be complaining like we are with Watkins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Just now, Zatman said: Is it really? A lot of Liverpool fans wanted to keep Mane over Salah for that reason Salah XG is worse than Watkins and he is taking nearly 3 shots more a game including penalties If we watched Salah or Tammy every game we would be complaining like we are with Watkins It is, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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