Summer Transfers Window 2020

[MaVilla]

8 hours ago, Philosopher said:

OK so Havertz is a CAM, Pulisic is a left side inside forward. Ziyech is a right side playmaker. Hudson Odoi is a inside forward that can play either side. It's not comparable.

What is comparative is Werner, Tammy, Giroud. Warner is more of a Vardy type, fast, looking to break the offside trap. Giroud, a target man. Tammy a bit of both.

We have Watkins a more skilled version of Tammy (looks a bit sharper to me as well), Wesley, a target man that likes to drop deep. Davis a powerful target man with some pace.

If you play one up front you need 3 strikers. Or 2 strikers and a a couple of inside forwards that can play striker. Or even 4 strikers where a couple of them are just as comfortable wide.

If you have two strikers of the same style you normally see one is the senior first choice and the other is a young player coming through.

Basically the modern 3 forwards, at the best clubs are like hybrids between wingers and strikers, who can also interchange, just look at liverpool.

I now pen the new "position name" for this new type of play/position/player.

a "Winker".

the mid 00's and most of the 10's were the era of the False 9, the 20's will be the era of the Winker.

[Philosopher]

11 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Would you have signed Ings 12months ago?

Yes because Wesley, Davis and Kodja was clearly insufficient. Kodja was 29 about to be 30 never played at that level. Davis talented but injury prone, and questionable goalscoring instincts. Wesley unproven, inexperienced, coming from Belgium, with no English. 

Most of Villatalk was unanimously calling for a quality Kodja Replacement at the very least.

Why not a player who was very good for Burnley before struggling with injury and world class forwards a head of him.

[thabucks]

I don’t get the fascination with signing Axel or Tammy other than misguided nostalgia. Both massively overrated on here and also by their clubs in terms of value. Better options available at a cheaper cost. We would no doubt end up turning on Tammy anyhow. 

[Philosopher]

1 minute ago, MaVilla said:

Basically the modern 3 forwards, at the best clubs are like hybrids between wingers and strikers, who can also interchange, just look at liverpool.

I now pen the new "position name" for this new type of play/position/player.

a "Winker".

the mid 00's and most of the 10's were the era of the False 9, the 20's will be the era of the Winker.

Liverpool player with two winkers and a false target!

[Jas10]

2 minutes ago, thabucks said:

I don’t get the fascination with signing Axel or Tammy other than misguided nostalgia. Both massively overrated on here and also by their clubs in terms of value. Better options available at a cheaper cost. We would no doubt end up turning on Tammy anyhow. 

Same reason ppl want Benteke & Albrighton...

[thabucks]

The benteke fascination is just plain wrong and absurd. Samatta 1 goal in 14 is maligned by some yet Bentkes pitiful return since leaving us how many years ago is acceptable to some. Weird. 
I have visions of Edouard repeating Benteke success is he was to join. 
 

[Philosopher]

7 minutes ago, thabucks said:

I don’t get the fascination with signing Axel or Tammy other than misguided nostalgia. Both massively overrated on here and also by their clubs in terms of value. Better options available at a cheaper cost. We would no doubt end up turning on Tammy anyhow. 

To be honest I would have Axel back. I don’t see Konsa as being better than him they are probably on a similar level, but for me we need quick defenders and Engels is too slow for my liking, so Tuanzebe would fill that need and his talent ceiling (for me) is very high. Lots of potential there. The risk is his injury record.

[Jas10]

11 minutes ago, thabucks said:

The benteke fascination is just plain wrong and absurd. Samatta 1 goal in 14 is maligned by some yet Bentkes pitiful return since leaving us how many years ago is acceptable to some. Weird. 
I have visions of Edouard repeating Benteke success is he was to join. 
 

It’s just blind nostalgia & sentiment... the worst kind of signings we could make in terms of where we want to go & what we want to achieve. Many need to realise that there are many more and much better players out there who could themselves become heroes/legends etc. Too much of a “go with what you know” mentality and blind hope that simply by returning to the club they will miraculously hit top form again.

Signing ageing players and has-beens on high wages (they no longer warrant/deserve) has to be the worst “strategy” there can be...

We’ve already been down that road and it ruined us.

 

And yeah, I could’ve seen Edouard potentially being our “next Benteke”. Hopefully Ollie will do the business for us.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Jas10

[Cizzler]

16 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

OK so Havertz is a CAM, Pulisic is a left side inside forward. Ziyech is a right side playmaker. Hudson Odoi is a inside forward that can play either side. It's not comparable.

What is comparative is Werner, Tammy, Giroud. Warner is more of a Vardy type, fast, looking to break the offside trap. Giroud, a target man. Tammy a bit of both.

We have Watkins a more skilled version of Tammy (looks a bit sharper to me as well), Wesley, a target man that likes to drop deep. Davis a powerful target man with some pace.

If you play one up front you need 3 strikers. Or 2 strikers and a a couple of inside forwards that can play striker. Or even 4 strikers where a couple of them are just as comfortable wide.

If you have two strikers of the same style you normally see one is the senior first choice and the other is a young player coming through.

Haha it is comparable, you're being far too pedantic. CHO, Mount, Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech will all play both RM and LM for Chelsea this season. I agree Havertz will play more time at CAM, but even then he's competing with Kovacic and RLC. Anyway, the point is that good clubs buy good players when they are available.

If we're going to improve, we need strength in depth. One injury to (an unproven in the League) Ollie Watkins, and out comes Keinan Davis again.

[MaVilla]

17 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Liverpool player with two winkers and a false target!

I thought Liverpool was full of winkers?

[Phil Silvers]

24 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

 

What is comparative is Werner, Tammy, Giroud. Warner is more of a Vardy type, fast, looking to break the offside trap. Giroud, a target man. Tammy a bit of both.

 

 

So you're saying Tammy is better then both

[hippo]

42 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

My point with the Wes comparison was merely to highlight that Tammy isn't some player that we drastically improve us but in actuality won't improve us at all. If a player much criticised can be shown to be his equal it kind of makes the argument that he is the answer to our striking problem as ridiculous as it is.

Have you not taken time to think Why Wesley is critisced and Abraham is something of a hero here ?

 

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, hippo said:

Have you not taken time to think Why Wesley is critisced and Abraham is something of a hero here ?

 

I assume you are insinuating something which I’ll let others discuss.

As you’ll see from the Wes thread, I’m a huge fan of Wes and think a trio of Watkins, Tammy and Wes would be a phenomenal choice of options through a long season for us especially as we won’t have Wes for months.

[Dave-R]

I'd buy Traore, Beundia, Billing and King and that's the lot for the middle and up front and a good bit of business and what ever is left over can be used for a couple of defensive options.

[Phil Silvers]

Can we not raid Liverpool, they must have plans to ship a few out now

[Philosopher]

30 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

Haha it is comparable, you're being far too pedantic. CHO, Mount, Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech will all play both RM and LM for Chelsea this season. I agree Havertz will play more time at CAM, but even then he's competing with Kovacic and RLC. Anyway, the point is that good clubs buy good players when they are available.

If we're going to improve, we need strength in depth. One injury to (an unproven in the League) Ollie Watkins, and out comes Keinan Davis again.

We definitely need another striker, or winger that can play striker, my point was simply you don't load up with oranges. You have an orange, an apple and a peach. Options means more than like for like replacements.

[Dave-R]

51 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Basically the modern 3 forwards, at the best clubs are like hybrids between wingers and strikers, who can also interchange, just look at liverpool.

I now pen the new "position name" for this new type of play/position/player.

a "Winker".

the mid 00's and most of the 10's were the era of the False 9, the 20's will be the era of the Winker.

Think you meant

[thabucks]

Interesting that Liverpool are selling academy prospects in Brewster for £20 mill + & Dutch RB linked to wolves for £10mill. They certainly know how to obtain best value when selling... 

 

[Steero113]

1 minute ago, thabucks said:

Interesting that Liverpool are selling academy prospects in Brewster for £20 mill + & Dutch RB linked to wolves for £10mill. They certainly know how to obtain best value when selling... 

 

Helps that they're the current PL champions.

[Philosopher]

31 minutes ago, hippo said:

Have you not taken time to think Why Wesley is critisced and Abraham is something of a hero here ?

 

Yes it's because Wes was struggling to adapt to the Premier league and Tammy was our 20 plus goal striker for our promotion season. Not really very fair on Wesley is it? If you compare their seasons taking into account where they played, then you can say their performance level wasn't particularly different.