Generic Virus Thread

[mjmooney]

26 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

So found out yesterday my wife is an anti masker. She said when the rule comes in she will only wear it if asked and she went to a small local supermarket and when asked why she didn’t wear a mask, she said there was only the check out assistant in there. We will fallout over this. It will be the Elgin Marbles all over again. 

 

[StefanAVFC]

Just confused at why there isn't the same outrage for the government telling people to wear seatbelts or wear clothes in public.

[Dodgyknees]

26 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Just confused at why there isn't the same outrage for the government telling people to wear seatbelts or wear clothes in public.

Because since 2016 nobody trusts experts.

[villakram]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Just confused at why there isn't the same outrage for the government telling people to wear seatbelts or wear clothes in public.

I actually had the seat belt conversation with a fully functioning adult in my first year over here. It blew my mind, but he had only ever thought about it from the personal freedom perspective.

I pointed out the wife/kids/parents/friends etc., that would be affected by your heath after a 30-40mph collision w vs w/o a belt. He genuinely had never thought about it that way before. One of those truly eye-opening moments.

Perfectly nice and pleasant fellow all the same, of course. 

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, villakram said:

I actually had the seat belt conversation with a fully functioning adult in my first year over here. It blew my mind, but he had only ever thought about it from the personal freedom perspective.

I pointed out the wife/kids/parents/friends etc., that would be affected by your heath after a 30-40mph collision w vs w/o a belt. He genuinely had never thought about it that way before. One of those truly eye-opening moments.

Perfectly nice and pleasant fellow all the same, of course. 

Also, if he’s relying on any sort of public health care* everyone else will be on the hook for the more expensive medical treatment required for a no seatbelt crash. 

*admittedly not always the case in the US. 

Edit: Even under a private system presumably insurance companies take a dim view of such reckless behaviour. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by LondonLax

[StefanAVFC]

3 hours ago, villakram said:

I actually had the seat belt conversation with a fully functioning adult in my first year over here. It blew my mind, but he had only ever thought about it from the personal freedom perspective.

I pointed out the wife/kids/parents/friends etc., that would be affected by your heath after a 30-40mph collision w vs w/o a belt. He genuinely had never thought about it that way before. One of those truly eye-opening moments.

Perfectly nice and pleasant fellow all the same, of course. 

Reminds me of my time living in NH. Their state motto is 'live free or die'. Their seatbelt law is under 16s only with the huge tagline 'it's common sense'. Live free and die would be more appropriate.

[TheAuthority]

10 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Reminds me of my time living in NH. Their state motto is 'live free or die'. Their seatbelt law is under 16s only with the huge tagline 'it's common sense'. Live free and die would be more appropriate.

What I wonder is do they put their babies and young kids in car seats? I have a toddler myself and you could shoot him in a rocket to Mars in his car seat and he'd hardly move a muscle. Do these folks just not bother with any of that because "freedom" ?

[Genie]

If it wasn't for the UK government proving they are incompetent over and over I'd see this as very promising.

Quote

The UK government has signed deals for 90 million doses of promising coronavirus vaccines that are being developed.

The vaccines are being researched by an alliance between the pharmaceutical companies BioNtech and Pfizer as well as the firm Valneva.

The new deal is on top of 100 million doses of the Oxford University vaccine being developed by AstraZeneca.

However, it is still uncertain which of the experimental vaccines may work.

A vaccine is widely seen as the best chance of getting our lives back to normal.

Research is taking place at an unprecedented scale - the world became aware of coronavirus at the beginning of the year, but already more than 20 vaccines are in clinical trials.

Some can provoke an immune response, but none has yet been proven to protect against infection.

When will we have a vaccine?

The UK government has now secured access to vaccines that use three completely different approaches:

100m doses of the Oxford vaccine made from a genetically engineered virus

30 million doses of the BioNtech/Pfizer vaccine, which injects part of the coronavirus' genetic code

60 million doses of the Valneva, which uses an inactive version of the coronavirus

Using different styles of vaccine maximises the chance that one of them will work.

Kate Bingham, the chair of the government's Vaccine Taskforce, said: "The fact that we have so many promising candidates already shows the unprecedented pace at which we are moving.

"But I urge against being complacent or over optimistic.

"The fact remains we may never get a vaccine and if we do get one, we have to be prepared that it may not be a vaccine which prevents getting the virus, but rather one that reduces symptoms."

If an effective vaccine is developed then health and social care workers, as well as those at highest risk of the disease, will be prioritised.

It is possible a vaccine will be proven effective by the end of 2020, but wide-scale vaccination is still not expected until next year.

The education secretary, Gavin Williamson, told BBC Breakfast that vaccine development was "an incredibly long process and we are doing it at breakneck speed" but that we should expect a Covid 19 vaccine "after winter".

Link

[Chindie]

Seems it's had a resurgence in Hong Kong. They've seemingly closed down their overseas shipping services for the foreseeable.

The idea this thing is going away any time soon becomes increasingly laughable. 

Meanwhile Downing Street is pretending this is all fine and please, for the love of landlords everywhere, go back to work. 

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

If it wasn't for the UK government proving they are incompetent over and over I'd see this as very promising.

Link

Resists urge to Google which cabinet ministers have shares in these companies. Particularly the one you've never heard of. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

Meanwhile Downing Street is pretending this is all fine and please, for the love of landlords everywhere, go back to work. 

Not long ago we were told in no uncertain terms we must stay home.

Now the message is we MUST go out to work/eat/drink even though there is no vaccine and the virus is still prevalent.

 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Resists urge to Google which cabinet ministers close relative has shares in these companies. Particularly the one you've never heard of. 

There you go.

[HanoiVillan]

A good piece on masks, and specifically wanting to know why there is no flooding of the airwaves with information about how to wear them, take them off and dispose of them or wash them safely:

Extract:

'Wearing a face mask is a more complex and costly act, and less familiar [than hand-washing]. People will face various difficulties in complying. Assuming that any positive effect of making masks mandatory exists, it is vital that these benefits are maximised and any potential downsides mitigated. This raises many additional questions. What sort of masks should be worn? How should they be worn? How often can they be worn? How often do they need to be cleaned? Is it more important to emphasise mask-wearing for certain groups? Might it be sensible to not recommend mask-wearing for others?

All this means at least two things: first, we need a public information campaign that helps widespread, effective compliance. This must not say simply “wear a mask”, or bury the answers to these questions on a government website; it should make the guidance highly visible and clear to understand. The World Health Organization has produced infographics and films that provide a good template.

Second, compliance needs to be possible for everyone. This crisis, and actions taken to mitigate it, has already had a devastating financial impact on many people. The price in a supermarket for a disposable face mask is about 70p: that cost has to be multiplied by the number of daily trips on public transport where masks are already mandatory – and, in one week’s time, will be multiplied by the number of visits to a shop or supermarket. While fabric masks are available, they need to be washed regularly – the WHO says at least once a day – adding more costs. Face masks are already being given away for free at some Network Rail-operated train stations: this could be rolled out more broadly, to other public transport hubs and at supermarkets.'

There's more on the link, and the author is a good follow on Twitter for stuff to do with health economics.

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

wanting to know why there is no flooding of the airwaves with information about how to wear them, take them off and dispose of them or wash them safely

Apparently, Williamson, whilst being interviewed today, said that he always had a mask with him and produced one from his pocket and then promptly stuffed it back in there.*

No resealable bag or anything. What else he had in his pocket amongst which this piece of equipment was sitting- a couple of used tunes wrappers, a pencil, a snotty hankie, his list of 'things we need to call the army in for' - I don't know.

It's not just that there seems to be no sort of public info campaign going alongside this mandatory requirement but that even when ministers (including the Prime Minister) get the opportunity to do a bit of 'nudging' they don't or, as I think may have been suggested in the Tory thread, they do but the nudging is the other way.

 

*Edit: I would just say that this is what I was told happened as I wasn't watching.

Edited July 20, 2020 by snowychap

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Apparently, Williamson, whilst being interviewed today, said that he always had a mask with him and produced one from his pocket and then promptly stuffed it back in there.

No resealable bag or anything. What else he had in his pocket amongst which this piece of equipment was sitting- a couple of used tunes wrappers, a pencil, a snotty hankie, his list of 'things we need to call the army in for' - I don't know.

It's not just that there seems to be no sort of public info campaign going alongside this mandatory requirement but that even when ministers (including the Prime Minister) get the opportunity to do a bit of 'nudging' they don't or, as I think may have been suggested in the Tory thread, they do but the nudging is the other way.

So yet another opportunity to missed to demonstrate how put one on and take one off to the large proportion (50? 80? 95?) of the British public who don't yet know how to do so.

It's hard to believe that it's just bumbling incompetence, when Johnson missed an opportunity to do the same thing just a week or two ago.

[bielesibub]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53469839

Quote

A coronavirus vaccine developed by the University of Oxford appears safe and triggers an immune response.

Trials involving 1,077 people showed the injection led to them making antibodies and T-cells that can fight coronavirus.

 

Fingers crossed it works and doesn't lead to any other issues.

[MCU]

"The vaccine - called ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 - is being developed at unprecedented speed."

Swear I played someone on Call of Duty back in the day called that.

Edited July 20, 2020 by MCU

[snowychap]

 

[KentVillan]

On 19/07/2020 at 10:46, StefanAVFC said:

Just confused at why there isn't the same outrage for the government telling people to wear seatbelts or wear clothes in public.

In fairness, there is much stronger evidence that seatbelts save lives (and especially the life of the person wearing the seatbelt).

I'm not outraged by the mask rule, and don't see it as Orwellian or whatever. I'm just a bit baffled by the strength of feeling in favour of wearing low-quality masks. It's become a statement of identity, on both sides of the debate. That's weird.

As the piece shared by @HanoiVillan says, if we're serious about this rule, it's not enough to just say: "wear face masks". People need to be told what sort of mask to wear, how to buy / make it, how often to replace it, how to clean / maintain it, what to do with it when they're not wearing it, etc.

What we have at the moment is a vague edict that is almost deliberately designed to drive low compliance, and it's not just a British or American thing. Spain is said to have 80% of the population wearing masks, but in practice that statistic probably includes a huge number of people who aren't complying properly with the spirit of the law:

Quote

Matthew Parris

The Spanish Approach to face masks

...

The first rule is that almost everyone carries a face mask at all times. Most use the simple white or pale blue fabric mask with a wire through the top edge to help grip the bridge of the nose. Next, then, to the circumstances in which they put it on.

It seems that if you are serving or assisting in a bar, restaurant or shop, you keep your mask on at all times, indoors and out. So far, so rational. But customers’ habits are different. Broadly, these appear to encourage the wearing of masks for walking or transacting business, but not in social or convivial circumstances. So you wear a mask, for example, if strolling down the road accompanied or unaccompanied: even on an almost empty pavement, or by the highway, or down the footpath to the beach.

You arrive at (say) the bar of your choice in your mask. You then sit down at a table outside or within, or at the bar stool itself — and take off your mask! Likewise at the beach: arrive in mask, sit down on the sand among other beach-goers, spread out your towel, remove your mask. I hardly saw anyone wearing a mask unless they were standing up. In one village in the Alpujarras on the verdant slopes of the Sierra Nevada mountains, I emerged from a bar — busy, noisy, hot, and crowded with the usual old men drinking and talking and shouting at the football referee on the television, not one of them masked — and into a quiet street, down which a couple of villagers were walking, masked-up in the open air. We were lunching at the tables outside, watching as masked customers arrived in ones and twos, sat down close to other diners, and removed their masks.

What seems to have happened (and it’s only a guess) is that the mask has become an accessory, signalling the virtues of social responsibility, but actually worn only when convenient. Bars there must be. Restaurants there must be. Laughter, backslapping and unmuffled conversation there must be. Beverages must be sipped; food must be munched; and politely kiss we must. These things being impossible through a muzzle, the mask is simply dispensed with.

Dispensed with, yes, but kept by you and visible at all times. Kept where? Certain patterns seem to be emerging. The cool youths often wear them like an armband above the elbow. Since removing the mask for use then means pulling your arm out of both elastic loops, this seems to say ‘I could, but am not expecting to’.

The bustling lady running our restaurant yesterday wore hers hanging by one elastic loop from her right ear. This seemed to say ‘mostly this stays on but, Lord, I need a breather’. Others simply slip mask under chin like a little bib, and this is common but (I sense) thought a little inelegant. One or two slip them upwards and on to their foreheads, as some slickers do with sunglasses: but stored here the mask has a habit of slipping back down over the eyes.

Last night, however, we just may have seen the future. A chap in a neat suit had folded his mask into a neat point and tucked it into the breast pocket of his jacket, only the point showing, as a gentleman might do with the handkerchief into which he is never going to blow his nose.

from: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-spanish-approach-to-face-masks

I suspect mask wearing will be detailed in the same chapter as toilet paper shortages and HCQ when historians get round to explaining 2020. (Low-quality cloth masks, that is. Obviously the availability of proper PPE in medical settings is a different topic.)

So yes, I'll wear masks, because the law requires it, it's the polite thing to do, and it makes other people feel more comfortable, and it might have some positive effect with minimal cost. But that doesn't stop me from thinking the debate around face masks has gone completely bonkers.

[ml1dch]

Ireland has so few places to go on holiday that the Tánaiste has to literally go and stay in Father Ted's house.