choffer Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, blandy said: You kind of wonder if a few things will happen - especially come the winter. Some workers will be asking their company "I'm working from home, I don't have an office chair, or a proper work environment - I've got a laptop on my knee sat at the kitchen table - I need a chair and a monitor and my heating and lighting bills have rocketed, and my internet costs and...so you need to help me here" I reckon the internet companies will put costs up - because they can and they will reckon employers might start paying. And employers with people WFH will have savings on their heating and cleaning and rental and etc. I've been through all this over the last few months. Our CEO has asked me to see what people need and some of the requests have been fanciful in the extreme. We've allowed people to borrow laptops and have provided everyone in the organisation with one if they didn't have access to a company-issued one. I've sent keyboards, mice, mice mats, and chairs to people in their hundreds but have been clear that we are not providing anything else as we just can't afford it. It's been interesting seeing how the workforce have split into two camps - those who don't want us spending money as they'll "cope" with whatever they have and those who expect me to accede to whatever demand they can dream up: a "clip-on desk extender" a USB hub to charge their iPhone, a "birthing ball", paying for their lighting, their heating, their internet, sending them a fondue set, a cuddly toy, a set of garden furniture. I've been able to convince our leadership team not to open the office again this year but I genuinely think the only reason they agreed was because we seem more productive at the moment. I'm not sure that is sustainable in the long-term though as we are already seeing people burn-out. Our Directors see the cost of bricks and mortar and think we can shed that burden if everyone works from home. The knock-on implications of that are just not being considered. I sense that the line "we are doing everything we can to ensure the long-term viability of the organisation" will be used to justify all kinds of actions over the next year or so - some justifiably, some less so. I'm not sure, reading this back that any of this is particularly relevant to the debate - it's just more anecdotal, I guess. One thing we have done though is add the HMRC home working allowance to everyone's monthly pay packet. The hope is that this staves off any further querying of internet/heating/electricity bills and the like. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 @choffer I’ve seen those 2 groups you have mentioned many times in my place of work. 1) What can I do for my company (especially in a time of need)? and 2) What can I get out of my company? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted July 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, blandy said: I reckon the internet companies will put costs up - because they can and they will reckon employers might start paying. Maybe we should treat internet provision as a necessary utility, and have it free at the point of use. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Genie said: @choffer I’ve seen those 2 groups you have mentioned many times in my place of work. 1) What can I do for my company (especially in a time of need)? and 2) What can I get out of my company? I always remember my dad telling me he knew who he wanted to keep in his (relatively small) company and who he didn't when they had their annual Christmas party. His card would be behind the bar for the first two hours and the group would immediately split into two groups. There was one that was appreciative and respectful and there was another smaller group who tried to get as much down their neck as possible in those two hours and who then spent the last 15 minutes stockpiling for the rest of the evening. Some people just don't think that by their actions, they are signing themselves up to one of two lists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Maybe we should treat internet provision as a necessary utility, and have it free at the point of use. Good idea. Dunno why nobody has ever thought of that before. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 We have to pay for water and electricity which are pretty important. Not sure why internet would be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I wonder if shops will be busy this weekend. I said to the better half we need to get some plants for the garden baskets and she replied best get them before the compulsory mask wearing comes in. I wonder how many other people will put off going to the shops for that reason. Isn’t it the opposite effect that the rule was intended to achieve? If there’s another nose dive in retail I expect they’ll cancel it sharpish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Genie said: I wonder if shops will be busy this weekend. I said to the better half we need to get some plants for the garden baskets and she replied best get them before the compulsory mask wearing comes in. I wonder how many other people will put off going to the shops for that reason. Isn’t it the opposite effect that the rule was intended to achieve? If there’s another nose dive in retail I expect they’ll cancel it sharpish. I'm not saying your wife is wrong, I just genuinely don't understand why someone would be put off going to the shop by having to wear a mask. It's such an easy thing to do and makes very little difference. I'd say it's extremely mildly inconvenient at worst. Is it just people not wanting to be told what to do? Edited July 17, 2020 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The deaths on average appear to have plateaued. (Pedants, don’t get hung up on my lack of research) is there detail on who is actually dying now? Underlying health problems, the elderly. Who is dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm not saying your wife is wrong, I just genuinely don't understand why someone would be put off going to the shop by having to wear a mask. It's such an easy thing to do and makes very little difference. I'd say it's extremely mildly inconvenient at worst. Is it just people not wanting to be told what to do? I completely agree, I was surprised she said it as she’s been to the shop a few times and worn a mask. I think wearing a mask to do the essential shop at the supermarket is one thing most people are ok with. Wearing one to walk around a retail park with the family in tow for a few hours I think people might just not bother. I think my kids would see the novelty factor in it for about 15 minutes then start moaning, messing with it, dropping it on the floor etc. Edited July 17, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Genie said: I completely agree, I was surprised she said it as she’s been to the shop a few times and worn a mask. I think wearing a mask to do the essential shop at the supermarket is one thing most people are ok with. Wearing one to walk around a retail park with the family in tow for a few hours I think people might just not bother. I think my kids would see the novelty factor in it for about 15 minutes then start moaning, messing with it, dropping it on the floor etc. Yeah I guess I see that, especially with the kids angle. I hadn't thought about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, blandy said: You kind of wonder if a few things will happen - especially come the winter. Some workers will be asking their company "I'm working from home, I don't have an office chair, or a proper work environment - I've got a laptop on my knee sat at the kitchen table - I need a chair and a monitor and my heating and lighting bills have rocketed, and my internet costs and...so you need to help me here" I reckon the internet companies will put costs up - because they can and they will reckon employers might start paying. And employers with people WFH will have savings on their heating and cleaning and rental and etc. In terms of internet/heating I think people can claim back some of this cost via HMRC? Not sure what the form is, but you make the claim direct. The other points you make are valid and come down to the employer. Mine allows desks, chairs and monitors to be claimed back through expenses, up to a certain amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, Genie said: We have to pay for water and electricity which are pretty important. Not sure why internet would be any different? With water, they're not allowed to switch it off, even if you never pay. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah I guess I see that, especially with the kids angle. I hadn't thought about that. I did leave an important bit out of the dialogue actually... I said we need to get some new plants as the baskets are looking shit, I’ll go and get some after work later (joys of WFH). She said we can go tomorrow if you like, we’ll all go, it’ll gets the kids out the house for a bit, plus it’s before the compulsory mask wearing comes in. It just made me think if after the rule comes in there will be a drop off in retail as casual shoppers decide they can’t be arsed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Genie said: We have to pay for water and electricity which are pretty important. Not sure why internet would be any different? I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but bandwidth is pretty similar to water in some respects, and the most efficient solution to fund both would be for them to be 'free' but in reality supported by property taxes, as opposed to being metered. This is because there is no real scarcity in the supply of either, and my use of them does not affect yours. (Obviously this is getting away from the subject of the virus, but we may need to think about bandwidth differently if there is going to be a huge shift to working-from-home). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but bandwidth is pretty similar to water in some respects, and the most efficient solution to fund both would be for them to be 'free' but in reality supported by property taxes, as opposed to being metered. This is because there is no real scarcity in the supply of either, and my use of them does not affect yours. (Obviously this is getting away from the subject of the virus, but we may need to think about bandwidth differently if there is going to be a huge shift to working-from-home). I do agree, but also, water is water. Having the internet companies in competition should lead to better speeds and more reliable connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: We have to pay for water and electricity which are pretty important. Not sure why internet would be any different? My water company is a not for profit organisation. My doctor would have been private in the past but some crazy dude nationalised him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Maybe we should treat internet provision as a necessary utility, and have it free at the point of use. A great idea, even before the current situation unfolded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Xela said: With water, they're not allowed to switch it off, even if you never pay. Water Act 1991, IIRC. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Genie said: Having the internet companies in competition should lead to better speeds and more reliable connections. I can't see why it would, when speed and reliability are a function of the 'final mile' wiring from the cabinet on the street, which is provided by a monopoly provider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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