Generic Virus Thread

[Villarocker]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Why don't we release daily death figures for those that have died in care homes? I know it can take over a week for care home deaths to be recorded but the daily hospital death figures often relate to people who died weeks ago.

The elderly were high on the government’s list of people to protect as they were the first group of people (over 70s) to be advised to stay at home.

So, with the above in mind, why didn't they set up some reporting procedure for the offices that register deaths to report all deaths that showed Coronavirus or Covid-19 anywhere on the death certificate and include a rule that the place of death - care home, nursing home, at home, etc - be included on the certificate to help them determine where the person died. All they needed was a specific hotline where each register office, say at 3pm each day, registers all such deaths since 3pm the previous day. The government could then have those figures collected for their daily briefings. 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I dont think so chap. It's either slate the goverment, or trying to justify more deaths, or both.

I think you're interpretation of what is being said is very confused.

[blandy]

On 26/04/2020 at 13:26, Awol said:

Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College is a competent, unbiased and reliable source? The video below is really worth watching for a detailed update on the general situation, but at 32:30 he directly addresses the issue of SAGE, observers and Cummings. *spoiler* You’ll be pleased to know he states Cummings has attended “and not interfered with the business of those meetings at all.”

So you could take the word of a man who’s mostly respected on here, or the word of a man who is despised, has no actual experience of the situation and is therefore speculating. Up to you. 

He spoke well in that vid, as you'd hope and expect. On Cummins he said he said a number of observers attended, but didn’t interfere, which is good to know. He didn't opine on whether the presence of Cummins led to people speaking in a particular way - that would be speculation, either that they did or didn't. Davis didn't really speculate either, not in a "Cummins caused this or that..". he said that his opinion was Cummins shouldn't have been there. I agree with him, but see your argument. I don't see Cummins as a positive influence, you perhaps do? For me he's another Alisdair Campbell type, a schemer, controller and manipulator.

[snowychap]

[Stevo985]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm finding it more an more morbid on here the fascination on the number of deaths. Every day people are trying to justify more deaths while poking a stick at a so called political scandal. Now I'm not sure if this happening because its helping some of you through it, or weather you just like taking about death figures every day, but it's getting to the point where I'm finding it hard to come into this thread, as all you guys seem to talk about is the amount of people dying rather than factual and maybe some positive information which is the reason I came into this thread in the first place. Please if you wanna fight over how many people are dying every day split this thread into a general discussion about the actual virus, an start another thread about deaths.

Dealing with the number of deaths is about as factual as you can get on this matter. 
 

It’s also just about the best metric to measure how bad a pandemic is and the Effectiveness of the relative responses of different countries, as better responses generally mean less deaths. 
 

I’d suggest if you don’t like reading about people dying you avoid a thread specifically about a deadly worldwide pandemic rather than moan about people talking about it. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Stevo985

[foreveryoung]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

I think you're interpretation of what is being said is very confused.

I have a like, at least someone understands, that's good enough for me. 

[limpid]

15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

start another thread about deaths.

Or you could start a new thread rather than expecting someone else to do it..

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Dealing with the number of deaths is about as factual as you can get on this matter. 
 

It’s also just about the best metric to measure how bad a pandemic is and the Effectiveness of the relative responses of different countries, as better responses generally mean less deaths. 
 

I’d suggest if you don’t like reading about people dying you avoid a thread specifically about a deadly worldwide pandemic rather than moan about people talking about it. 

I will cheers for the heads up.

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

The most important stat for me, at this time, is "how many people are catching it each day" over time.

At the moment, now testing is being increased that stat is going to climb, but it's the one which indicates/will indicate progress in eliminating it. All the other stats flow from "how many people catch it".

Spot on mate, testing is the key. 

Why is it the key? I called my GP last week having shown further signs of the virus that I was apparently recovered from. GP said it was fine to take 4 buses per day and go to work amongst 40-50 people with social distancing being kept to loosely. If I still have the virus I could be spreading it around. If I was tested and positive I wouldn't be allowed out of the home and there would be no chance of spreading it.

There could be tens of thousands of people in the same predicament as they are only testing medical people and those in hospitals. Your average Joe like me just has to go about his business hoping he's not going to spread anything or catch something that he can take home to his family. 

[Villarocker]

I think that anyone and everyone that has ever had flu and, has now suffered the Coronavirus, will agree that they are nowhere near the same. If all the elderly went about their business as normal and there was no restrictions in place we would be facing hundreds of thousands of deaths. 

I for one never feared dying from having the flu. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Villarocker

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Villarocker said:

The elderly were high on the government’s list of people to protect as they were the first group of people (over 70s) to be advised to stay at home.

So, with the above in mind, why didn't they set up some reporting procedure for the offices that register deaths to report all deaths that showed Coronavirus or Covid-19 anywhere on the death certificate and include a rule that the place of death - care home, nursing home, at home, etc - be included on the certificate to help them determine where the person died. All they needed was a specific hotline where each register office, say at 3pm each day, registers all such deaths since 3pm the previous day. The government could then have those figures collected for their daily briefings. 

My father in law died about a month ago in Nuneaton hospital.  It took just over 3 weeks to get the death certificate issued.  

The Hospital is in absolute chaos and they simply didn't have any doctors available to deal with the paperwork. 

I would have thought they would want to get the paperwork issued quickly and get the body moved away for burial.

I think people just don't realise the absolute disarray the health service is in now, they are barely coping with dealing with what is right in front of them now despite extra resources being thrown in.  

It's no suprise to me that stats and figures are probably impossible to get full stop let alone accurate right now. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by sidcow

[Villarocker]

Has anyone on here had the virus and struggling with their memory of things? 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Villarocker said:

Has anyone on here had the virus and struggling with their memory of things? 

I'm not sure. 

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, Villarocker said:

Has anyone on here had the virus and struggling with their memory of things? 

Depends if you were drinking tenants super at the same time

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said:

But you can't choose who does from flu every year either. Yes I know it isn't the flu & we already have vaccines for that but a good flu season in the uk will see a few thousand die, a bad flu season will see 50,000 die, most of them will be old & vulnerablebut plentyof youngerpeopledie too. never once have we had daily figures of 1000+ being reported on every news outlet. No outrage over how unprepared the country is, no calls for lockdown & isolation to help prevent tens of thousands of people dying despite it maybe actually being a good preventative measure. People don't wear face masks even when they know they have the flu and knowing full well that if the elderly person on the train sat next to them gets it, it could be fatal.  Hell I would put money on every single one of you having gone to work, the pub, football, gigs etc when you have been I'll with flu like symptoms before and not even give a second thought about spreading it, even in the couple of years recently that we have seen nearly 50000 flu deaths.

As I've said to you before, the point you are missing from your analysis here is that the critical issue is 'healthcare system capacity'. You're right that flu seasons can be quite deadly, but they are mostly quite predictable. They occur at roughly the same time every year, and while they can vary in how deadly they are, they are nowhere near as dangerous as this virus. What's more, the number of healthcare workers that get sick and die from the flu is much smaller, and patients require much less intensive care.

We are not locked down because 'one death is too many', we are locked down because we have a low ICU capacity, and the experience of northern Italy suggests that hospitals with much higher ICU capacities can become quickly overwhelmed when there is widespread community transmission of the virus.

EDIT: Another thing I would say, on the subject of mask-wearing, isolation and so on in the future, once this pandemic is over, is that we may well see behaviour change during flu seasons. Anyone who has spent significant amounts of time in east Asia will know that mask-wearing is common and not stigmatised, but that isn't some ancient habit. People weren't tilling the fields during the Ming dynasty with masks on, it's something that has happened over the last 20 years as a consequence of the series of pandemics beginning with SARS in 2003.

Edited April 26, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[Kingman]

Is China fighting a second wave of coronavirus? Beijing shuts gyms and a city of 10million people is put in lockdown

• China has shut downs gyms and swimming pools in Beijing amid fears the country is vulnerable to a second wave of coronavirus.  
• It comes just days after the communist regime quarantined a city of 10million people in its north west region near Russia   
• And on Saturday China's northwestern province of Shaanxi reported seven new imported cases coronavirus, all in citizens returning home from Russia.   
• Here’s how to help people impacted by Covid-19 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257519/China-shuts-gyms-swimming-pools-country-battles-second-wave-coronavirus.html 

[chrisp65]

Still the comparison with flu! FFS who got that idea in to people’s heads?

We have a pretty good idea what’s going to happen with flu. It’s ugly, its a killer, we know the parameters.

Covid was potentially an exponential problem that could kill hundreds of thousands in the UK, collapse the health service and leave millions with permanent or long term health issues. The contagion rate appears far higher than other diseases. We don’t fully understand who is at risk or why.

The death toll of 20,000 / 40,000 is because we had lockdown. But the whole system is being undermined because we don’t know who has it, and at the same time as not knowing who has it, we’ve failed at a governmental level to provide PPE when it was available.

So we have a new disease, highly contagious, health professionals without protection attempting to treat patients.

I’m going to struggle to discuss that without mentioning government or numbers or morals.

[sne]

This is scarily enough pretty spot on  

[bickster]

31 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I have a like, at least someone understands, that's good enough for me. 

I'm absolutely over the moon for you

[wazzap24]

@sne that is very good