Recruitment

[Tomaszk]

8 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Che Adams is another one.  Cost Southampton 15 million and hasn't scored a goal yet. He is mostly making sub appearances after an early run of starts didn't go that well.  Same age as Wesley. 

Given that Southampton has 2 senior strikers in Long and Ings he has little pressure to perform and can take his time bedding into the premier league.  We weren't able to have that same luxury. It's been a trail by fire for most of our young guys and I think in future seasons they will be better for it. 

I'd swap Wes for Adams tomorrow.

[Kiwivillan]

Just now, Tomaszk said:

I'd swap Wes for Adams tomorrow.

Adams is shit. No thanks

[Tomaszk]

Just now, Kiwivillan said:

Adams is shit. No thanks

He ain't great.

[Delphinho123]

9 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Adams is shit. No thanks

We know that! 

[TRO]

59 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Shocker: TRO moves the goalposts again 

You started this thread about our recruitment, or lack of good talent spots. I said: “No one wanted Mings when we loaned him”

You’ve said it was an obvious signing, backing it up by saying that it was obvious in the summer. Even Doris the Tea Lady could see I was talking about the initial decision to loan him last January TRO!

Do our recruitment team not get any credit for spotting Mings as the solution to our defensive problems? Not only was he unwanted and undervalued at Bournemouth, but seemingly he was over his injury problems (which, perhaps his parent club at the time didn’t believe), and he not only gave us great defensive solidity, but also organisation and leadership.

That’s a GARGANTUAN list of positives as long as Jeremy Beadle’s hand was small, that our recruitment team should be credited with when looking for a centreback! Don’t you think?

Yes, i agree, with the initial loan.....thought you was talking about the permanent signing.It was well spotted and the gamble paid off too.

but no one is saying, we can't spot any players, mcGinn was an inspired signing too, so was the Tammy loan.

just calm your jets..or, you'll need tablets.

Edited January 20, 2020 by TRO

[Adam2003]

Samatta signed in direct response to this thread. Nice work lads.

[Rob182]

For every good signing there is a bad one. No clubs get it right every time.

Here are a few costly Premier League duds from the S ummer.

Lloyd Kelly, defender, signed by Bournemouth for £13m. Yet to make a premier league appearance due to injuries. Played one competitive game for Bournemouth, in a 2-0 loss to Burton.

Arnaut Danjuma, winger, 22-yr-old signed by Bournemouth from Club Brugge for £13.7m. He’s played 9 Prem games for the cherries, helping them lose 6 and draw 3, with no goals or assists in the process.

Alex Iwobi. THIRTY FIVE MILLION. Currently sitting on one Prem goal from 16 appearances for Everton. (One more goal than Moise Kean, and he cost around £30m)

Joelinton - £40m!!!! At least they previously scouted Ayoze Perez to sell to Leicester to fund the great Joelinton signing though. 

Recruitment isn’t always straight forward.

[Rob182]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes, i agree, with the initial loan.....thought you was talking about the permanent signing.It was well spotted and the gamble paid off too.

but no one is saying, we can't spot any players, mcGinn was an inspired signing too, so was the Tammy loan.

just calm your jets..or, you'll need tablets.

So, in a thread titled “Recruitment” where the original post says the below, you aren’t saying we can’t spot good players?

Its even more important to have people with Nous who can spot talent and sophisticated systems and networks to aid.

Quote

We need outfield players who can make an impact like the 2 Goalkeepers have, and not just have to wait for next season.

 

Basically you want every signing to be a success? Why don’t you just go one step further and say that you demand we sign the very best option in the world for the money available? 

[Tomaszk]

13 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

For every good signing there is a bad one. No clubs get it right every time.

Recruitment isn’t always straight forward.

Addressed this in my silly long post earlier. You're right in what you say. It is hard. But you can do better than "for every good signing there is a bad one". 50/50 hit rate? Not good enough.

I thought this change of club structure bringing in Suso was going to bring us forward with our recruitment. Analytics. Using data as well as eyes as well as recommendations, multiple reports on reports on reports of player profiles. It's why Liverpool are running away with the league and now strengthening from a position of remarkable power, they use these things to the Nth degree. Not using these things well enough is why Utd have shit the bed in the last 5 years and are just horrendous with an expensive squad being paid a fortune.

Even better news is that this field isn't set in stone within an established hierarchy yet. You've got Man Utd, one of the biggest sports teams in the world miles behind Brentford in terms of getting their shit together and planning sensibly according to needs and means. Imagine Brentford with Utd's budget! Or even better, imagine Brentford with our budget...this summer, we wouldn't have ended up with only one striker that cost £22m and wasn't good enough. I had really high hopes for the summer window and what we've ended up with isn't good enough, cost more than it should and we are now halfway through January going into the latest "biggest game of the season" without a bloody striker. What the hell has gone on?

Has anything actually changed or have we got some new scouts? Suso and his pals.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

So, in a thread titled “Recruitment” where the original post says the below, you aren’t saying we can’t spot good players?

 

Basically you want every signing to be a success? Why don’t you just go one step further and say that you demand we sign the very best option in the world for the money available? 

Thats not what I am saying at all....thats your agenda. Black or white.

I think we should be signing better, yes....."I want every signing to be a success"is an exaggeration and you know it.....i think our success ratio should be higher, yes...but to get every one right is ridiculous......albeit Ron come close.

you have attempted to turn an open debate on recruitment in to a direct attack on them which is disengenuous.

Edited January 20, 2020 by TRO

[mikeyp102]

4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Targett is 24, James Justin is 21. One was bought to be a first team left back, the other was bought to be groomed for the future.

You can't really compare the price tags of players who are bought for their current ability and players who are bought for their potential. Its apples to oranges.

But that surely shows where the market is and where we are as a club. We had to buy a new squad. We couldn’t afford a top class player, as even youth players with potential cost similar to what we had to pay for a first teamer. 
 

Oh and maybe not use the phrase “groomed for the future” when talking about youngsters 

[Laughable Chimp]

18 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

But that surely shows where the market is and where we are as a club. We had to buy a new squad. We couldn’t afford a top class player, as even youth players with potential cost similar to what we had to pay for a first teamer. 
 

Oh and maybe not use the phrase “groomed for the future” when talking about youngsters 

Well yeah, I'm not disputing that. No one reasonable is expecting a ready made top class player to come in here. But the point is you can't really compare the price tags of players who are bought for their current ability and players who are bought for their potential as you did. a 15m pound 27 year old is expected to be currently much better than a 15m pound 19 year old for example.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Laughable Chimp

[Rob182]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

Thats not what I am saying at all....thats your agenda. Black or white.

I think we should be signing better, yes....."I want every signing to be a success"is an exaggeration and you know it.....i think our success ratio should be higher, yes...but to get every one right is ridiculous......albeit Ron come close.

you have attempted to turn an open debate on recruitment in to a direct attack on them which is disengenuous.

I haven’t.

Your whole post insinuates that some/a lot of our signings are failures, but the fact is that players won’t adapt straight away. We all need to have patience.

You can’t use players like Maupay (who have played numerous seasons in England) as your example of all foreign players that we should be bringing in. 

It’s a flawed argument when you’re already essentially writing off players who might ALL become good Premier League players.

As others have said, we haven’t got the money to buy experienced Prem quality. We haven’t got the money to fill our team with the ‘cream of the crop’ £25-30m players. We’ve been shopping in the bargain basement and that probably represents our best chance of squad creation and survival on a budget.

Yes, mistakes have been made (lack of striking options, lack of pace in the side, relying on an unproven Brazilian as our main striker), but mistakes will happen, and no analytical, machine-driven, modern recruitment system will eradicate all mistakes.

[Dale]

The interesting thing is, the club after we were relegated rapidly wrote off Veretout, Gana, Ayew... And sold them for no more than we bought them for. We bought potential, and that hadn't dissipated, there values have grown since. 

What I'm saying is its way too soon to deride the transfers - yes, if we could afford we'd want the finished article. But we can't, and we didn't have a squad. 

[Kiwivillan]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

The interesting thing is, the club after we were relegated rapidly wrote off Veretout, Gana, Ayew... And sold them for no more than we bought them for. We bought potential, and that hadn't dissipated, there values have grown since. 

What I'm saying is its way too soon to deride the transfers - yes, if we could afford we'd want the finished article. But we can't, and we didn't have a squad. 

Veretout Amavi Gueye and Traore are worth €94 million in current market. It was the "PL experienced" players that sent us down

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, Dale said:

The interesting thing is, the club after we were relegated rapidly wrote off Veretout, Gana, Ayew... And sold them for no more than we bought them for. We bought potential, and that hadn't dissipated, there values have grown since. 

What I'm saying is its way too soon to deride the transfers - yes, if we could afford we'd want the finished article. But we can't, and we didn't have a squad. 

The club didn’t write them off. These players didn’t want to stay. 

[lapal_fan]

I keep seeing the word "debate" used in this thread, but the quality of it in here, is absolutely woeful.

You cannot turn around and say "Aston Villa's recruitment policy is shit.  Suso is shit & Dean Smith does/doesn't have enough say in transfers - discuss".  Then, when someone suggests other teams recruitment isn't particularly good either, you cannot just say "That's not important, we needed to sign better players."

If someone ask you "well, what do you suggest, who would you sign?" - You cannot answer that by saying "I'm not a scout, i don't have any suggestions". 

It makes you look incredibly thick.  Honestly, it's upsetting that some of you have gotten to this point in your lives where you cannot see or understand how stupid it's making you look. 

Either be prepared to DISCUSS (that means answer questions if you are asked them) the topic which has been create, or don't bother with the idiotic posts which are filling this topic.  It's utterly pointless.  It's wasting everyone's time and effort and annoying people.  

It's like "ahh but" - but without anything coming after it.  It's like you've thought of a question, asked it, but then aren't prepared to listen to an answer, or just dismiss it out right because it doesn't fall in line with what you think.  It's the sign of an idiot   

[Tayls]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The club didn’t write them off. These players didn’t want to stay. 

We cant 'recruit well' if the club the players are coming to has a completely toxic culture - which at the time that Vertout, Gana etc arrived, it did. We were absolute poison. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Rob182 said:

I haven’t.

Your whole post insinuates that some/a lot of our signings are failures, but the fact is that players won’t adapt straight away. We all need to have patience.

You can’t use players like Maupay (who have played numerous seasons in England) as your example of all foreign players that we should be bringing in. 

It’s a flawed argument when you’re already essentially writing off players who might ALL become good Premier League players.

As others have said, we haven’t got the money to buy experienced Prem quality. We haven’t got the money to fill our team with the ‘cream of the crop’ £25-30m players. We’ve been shopping in the bargain basement and that probably represents our best chance of squad creation and survival on a budget.

Yes, mistakes have been made (lack of striking options, lack of pace in the side, relying on an unproven Brazilian as our main striker), but mistakes will happen, and no analytical, machine-driven, modern recruitment system will eradicate all mistakes.

I think you are missing the point.

My Op was opening a debate on recruitment.....my opinions were just that, no more, its was your opinions, it was looking for.

All i read above is "insinuate that some of our signings are failures....not state," insinuate"......I am dubious, yes, that they will come good, there, I stated it, not insinuated.

"writing off players who MIGHT come good, you have no more idea than me that they will come good, but its your opinion, which i respect.

I am saying yes, they might come good, personally, i am dubious.thats my opinion

The idea of the thread was to get other peoples views, not to just attack mine, as an answer....and question why i have had the temerity to start such a thread.

you cite player examples to question, so what, it doesn't change my overall view.....you should just promote your opinions.

your last paragraph highlights what the thread was looking for not the other rhetoric.

We still have c10 days to see what they come up with.

Edited January 21, 2020 by TRO

[Kiwivillan]

Player recruiting is easy. Only need the player, the players agent, buying club, selling club to all be in agreement and the player to possibly uproot to a new city maybe family in tow which means accommodation, possibly schools etc.