Tayls Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) What we talking about? Edited January 21, 2020 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tayls said: What we talking about? Doris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 What’s going on here lads? Is the last page worth reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What’s going on here lads? Is the last page worth reading? There was an incredible, life changing post on page two I think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What’s going on here lads? Is the last page worth reading? I got carried away and wrote a huge ramble addressing recruitment that hasn't got the abuse it deserves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, lapal_fan said: 1. There is no point 2. You weren't opening a "debate" on recruitment - you said what you think and when people who don't think that way you've shot down, but liked and approved of the few people who agree with you. That's not a debate, that you standing on a soap box yelling anything but not listening in return. Ergo, it's pointless and you could have used another thread to say what you said. 3. What? You're saying yes, but no? Who are you? Vicky Pollard? 4. That may have been your intention, but if you have a weak point and get questioned about it, even if you don't agree, you should just take those opinions into account. But you haven't/don't. Look at my "debate" with @Dr_Pangloss earlier in the thread - we don't necessarily agree, but you can tell we respect each others opinions and have listened to one another. @Dr_Pangloss - Fancy a bum? The weak point is your opinion and perhaps a few others, but equally there are other folks, who have answered in the spirit the thread was intended......No where in the OP, have I attacked anybody or anything.....that is borne out of your interpretation. yes, but your responses have just been vitriol......with out ever saying what your opinions on the subject are.....its a bit rich saying, I give no responses to questions.. what exactly have I been yelling, only defending myself against people like you who seem to baulk at such questioning of the recruitment.....what are you hiding from? I still couldn't honestly tell you if you are pleased with the recruitment, ( in which case I would have accepted, that as your opinion) as you have deviated from the OP so much, wrapping yourself up in your own rhetoric and self agenda. However, above it all......I do think its funny., sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: A debate usually requires a back and forth. Characterizing people challenging your views as 'attacking yours' shows you were never interested in a debate tbh. Perhaps if you had of presented a case to say the Recruitment has been really good, it might not have got to this ridiculous stage. or I think our recruitment is really good, with no explanation attached, fine whats wrong with that ,its your opinion.......whats so hard about that. Instead of me saying what a load of garbage, explain yourself....you wouldn't have to, its your opinion. That's all the Op set out to do, but sadly its been turned in to witch hunt. ps When I am down the match tonight and someone refers to a player being crap.....I don't say explain yourself man.......His first opinion is sufficient for me, unless of course the fellow wants to explain and I want to listen.....but there again, I never mentioned our recruitment being crap, just questioned the hit v Miss rate.....to see what other folk thought. pps I think our logic differs mate, we best leave it there. Edited January 21, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 It's still going. 8 minutes ago, TRO said: only defending myself against people like you who seem to baulk at such questioning of the recruitment It's called a debate. Challenging of views. Last time I'll say this. From your replies, you clearly weren't interested in a debate. A debate involves 2 sides. You wanted to share your opinion, have it backed up and not challenged. When challenged, you couldn't cope and resorted to accusing others of attacking you, being 'touchy' then telling them to leave the thread. My advice would be, if you don't want a debate, preface your posts with that information then people won't challenge your opinions and your feelings won't be hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, TRO said: or I think our recruitment is really good. whats wrong with that ,its your opinion.......whats so hard about that. But I have never once said that I think the recruitment to be really good. That's a strawman. That's you making the entire discussion black or white. You either think we recruited well or we didn't. It clearly isn't as simple as that. I guess the nuance of the topic is lost on you. Witch hunt? Ha. No. You presented a set of opinions; people challenged those opinions without resorting to any personal attacks or post on poster, you got upset and accused people of attacking you. If you start a thread on a topic, be strong enough to accept people will want to challenge your views without basically insinuating people are bullying you, or don't start the thread at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 14:19, Rob182 said: Argument 1) WE DON'T IMPROVE PLAYERS! Counter argument: Jack Grealish, Jed Steer and John McGinn (off the top of my head) have all improved over the last 12 months. Many of our squad haven't, but then many of our squad haven't even been with us for 6 months, so maybe we should just have some patience and see how they develop. Argument 2) WE DON'T SPOT GOOD PLAYERS! Counter argument: We've spotted plenty of good players. No-one wanted Mings when we loaned him. McGinn was the bargain of the century. Guilbert was a bargain for a right-back who is topping some of the stats charts for Premier League defenders. We signed a bunch of good (or 'promising') players in the summer too, but the problem, as has been said 100 times, is that we had to build a squad on a relative budget, therefore our whole squad is made up of players who can be inconsistent. Throw Trezeguet or Douglas Luiz into an established Premier League team like Burnley or Palace, and you wouldn't see half of the complaints that we see from our fanbase. Why? Because when they have an off game, they can still rely on the rest of their Premier League squad, whereas we don't have that luxury. We have a handful of genuine Premier League quality players. The rest might become genuine Prem quality, but that doesn't happen overnight. Argument 3) WE DON'T PRODUCE OUR OWN TALENT! Counter argument: We do. Unfortunately, the combination of chopping and changing managers, changing leagues, questionable finance management and occasionally impatient fans means that the odd player that we produce doesn't seem good enough. But I'd argue our rate of producing talent is probably in line with other lower Premier League clubs. My answer to this whole thread @TRO, is to just have some patience. Some fans said the exact same things in our relegation season. Many of those players are now very, very good. This time round, if we go the same way, I'd hope that our (seemingly) superior owners have not allowed ridiculous release clauses into the contracts of most of our players. That's not to say we wouldn't lose a couple of players, but I believe that we'd keep 80% of our squad together, and put together a promotion push the following season, only to return with a squad more experienced in the English leagues. This entire conversation makes me laugh. You're continuously accusing others of attacking you yet on the first page... @Rob182 took the time to address your points, completely respectfully. What is the first word of your reply? On 20/01/2020 at 14:47, TRO said: Rubbish, even Doris the tea lady wanted him.....we were all talking about a dominant CB I guess Courtinho was not bad bought, for c£8.5 mill and sold for c £140 odd mill Guilbert, might be top of the stats, but gets caught out a lot as he did Saturday for their goal. The patience thing is meaningless.....How can it be argued either way......so a player gets better and the argument shuts down.....a players does not improve and the argument gets washed away in the sands. Patience is a virtue, but on its own its abstract....evidence of improvement has to be seen for patience to have a meaning.....improvement is incremental not a seismic change. Then a condescending remark about Doris the Tea Lady. Not only are you falsely accusing people of attacking you, you did much worse towards others' views right at the very start of the thread. So please, take a step back, realise what the word 'debate' means and try not to accuse anybody else of things you've been guilty of. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It's still going. It's called a debate. Challenging of views. Last time I'll say this. From your replies, you clearly weren't interested in a debate. A debate involves 2 sides. You wanted to share your opinion, have it backed up and not challenged. When challenged, you couldn't cope and resorted to accusing others of attacking you, being 'touchy' then telling them to leave the thread. My advice would be, if you don't want a debate, preface your posts with that information then people won't challenge your opinions and your feelings won't be hurt. completely false and disengenuous. If you read the OP again I have declared my concerns.....those concerns were mine, why should you challenge my opinion, facts yes by all means.... but the post invited other opinions. The post was screaming for the likes of you to give your opinion, not challenge mine.....if your argument was stronger, it would be listen too. Telling someone their opinions are rubbish, is not debate, presenting a counter opinion is. I can do without your advice, if you don't mind. Your penultimate line is quite preposterous, after c 23,000 posts I think I am big and ugly enough, to with stand a challenge......but yours deviated away from the OP , and became semi personal. When something goes round and round in circles its best to put it down...that was me telling someone else, not you......don't form a possee, thats weak too.....He can answer his own responses, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: But I have never once said that I think the recruitment to be really good. That's a strawman. That's you making the entire discussion black or white. You either think we recruited well or we didn't. It clearly isn't as simple as that. I guess the nuance of the topic is lost on you. Witch hunt? Ha. No. You presented a set of opinions; people challenged those opinions without resorting to any personal attacks or post on poster, you got upset and accused people of attacking you. If you start a thread on a topic, be strong enough to accept people will want to challenge your views without basically insinuating people are bullying you, or don't start the thread at all. I am struggling here mate.....I said what if you had said that the recruitment was ok, i would have accepted that, not gone after you, because I disagree.....not that you did. In other words i would not have challenged your opinion, I have no right to. shall we just agree to disagree....I am bored now. Edited January 21, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 13:30, wilko154 said: Disagree completely. We are rebuilding at the moment, it was always going to take a couple of seasons to build the squad up to a PL side. Unfortunately the injuries have really hurt us this season, McGinn being out has left a huge hole in the middle of the pitch that we unfortunately haven't been able to fill. No doubt about it some of the performances from new players haven't been great, but again it was to be expected. If we can stay up this season then we have a chance to bring in some real quality next season to combine with the young squad we currently have. Thanks for a response, I was looking for in the OP....Whether you agree or not, your opinion, is appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, TRO said: I am struggling here mate.....I said what if you had said that the recruitment was ok, i would have accepted that, not gone after you, because I disagree.....not that you did. In other words i would not have challenged your opinion, I have no right to That is literally what a debate is I didn't go after you. I challenged your opinion in the spirit of the debate, that YOU YOURSELF said you wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This entire conversation makes me laugh. You're continuously accusing others of attacking you yet on the first page... @Rob182 took the time to address your points, completely respectfully. What is the first word of your reply? Then a condescending remark about Doris the Tea Lady. Not only are you falsely accusing people of attacking you, you did much worse towards others' views right at the very start of the thread. So please, take a step back, realise what the word 'debate' means and try not to accuse anybody else of things you've been guilty of. why respond....... its Robs Opinion, why should I challenge it, its disrespectful. I give my opinion in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, TRO said: Telling someone their opinions are rubbish, is not debate, presenting a counter opinion is. But that's literally what you did. On 20/01/2020 at 14:47, TRO said: Rubbish, even Doris the tea lady wanted him.....we were all talking about a dominant CB I guess Courtinho was not bad bought, for c£8.5 mill and sold for c £140 odd mill Guilbert, might be top of the stats, but gets caught out a lot as he did Saturday for their goal. The patience thing is meaningless.....How can it be argued either way......so a player gets better and the argument shuts down.....a players does not improve and the argument gets washed away in the sands. Patience is a virtue, but on its own its abstract....evidence of improvement has to be seen for patience to have a meaning.....improvement is incremental not a seismic change. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: why respond....... its Robs Opinion, why should I challenge it, its disrespectful. I give my opinion in the OP. BUT YOU LITERALLY CHALLENGED IT What are you talking about!? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: That is literally what a debate is I didn't go after you. I challenged your opinion in the spirit of the debate, that YOU YOURSELF said you wanted But its my opinion, you won't change it......anymore than I would change yours....so why challenge is. The object of the exercise was to give yours. and you didn't you was too preoccupied with mine. Eventually the stronger argument surfaces, that's my idea of debate......not cat calling others to say they are wrong, so negative that. Question.... Do the opposition in Parliament win anything by just disagreeing with the Government, for the sake of it........ without a credible opinion or proposal of their own? its clear mate, we have a difference of opinion on the word Debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: BUT YOU LITERALLY CHALLENGED IT What are you talking about!? I could say the same. No I didn't, I challenged him for challenging me.....much the same stance, I have had with you. I don't really want to get in to dialogue with something between another poster and me, if you don't mind....it smacks of ganging up. Edited January 22, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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