Recruitment

[nick76]

I also think recruitment is great in hindsight.  If you think back when we recruited players were you happy with signing that player.....for me, most of the summer I was happy with the signings, I wished for more experience and I had hoped that we sign an additional striker but each of the individual signings I was generally happy with.  Looking back now I have some varying views on some of them and I'm sure at the end of next season after they have been here two years that view will be different again given their ages and potential.  Some will be good, some will be bad.

[KenjiOgiwara]

My main worry during the summer was that we signed too many foreigners that were expected to hit the ground running. It's hard enough to sign a new team and make them gel if they are used to the league. Signing so many new players that are new to the PL and English game makes it even tougher. We've actually settled better than I expected so well done Deano. 

I suspect we didn't have much choice though considering the prices involved on British players. 

[VillaChris]

Our striker signing record has been truly abysmal over the last decade.

We must've signed them all for nearly 200m.

Edit: On general recruitment I agree the main ambition of this season was to stay up but let's be honest a huge part of that will be to do with Grealish who was nothing to do with any of the recruitment.

Way I look at it have we already put in place the building blocks to challenge the top 7 in a year or two and win a trophy (we'll see on that one in three weeks)....you'd have to be very optimistic to think that based on what we've seen so far this season. Yet two promoted teams from championship since 2018 are doing it so it is possible with the right signings.

Think the summer will all be about moving on the squad fillers (always seems to be like this). Likes of AEM, Lansbury, Chester, Taylor and Hogan will be out of contract/1 year left so goes without saying they need to be moved on if we're to seriously improve.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by VillaChris

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Last season, right?

yeah.

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

My main worry during the summer was that we signed too many foreigners that were expected to hit the ground running. It's hard enough to sign a new team and make them gel if they are used to the league. Signing so many new players that are new to the PL and English game makes it even tougher. We've actually settled better than I expected so well done Deano. 

I suspect we didn't have much choice though considering the prices involved on British players. 

Its not like we haven't been here before.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

I also think recruitment is great in hindsight.  If you think back when we recruited players were you happy with signing that player.....for me, most of the summer I was happy with the signings, I wished for more experience and I had hoped that we sign an additional striker but each of the individual signings I was generally happy with.  Looking back now I have some varying views on some of them and I'm sure at the end of next season after they have been here two years that view will be different again given their ages and potential.  Some will be good, some will be bad.

All teams sign players that don't work out....the trick is to get more good than bad....its the ratio between the 2 thats key.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Villarocker said:

The ball is in Baston's court. Depends where he is as a footballer. Does he see this as a new contract and more comfortable than being on the move or does he see how big a club we are and have a real go at doing well here? 

I personally feel that he could be a secret weapon. We've not scored a headed goal this season until Samatta netted last week. Maybe Baston will give us the aerial threat we've badly lacked this season. 

funnily enough I have no issue with a free transfer its almost a win ,win except the wages....the odds are low, but he could be ok......**** me if he can head to ball that must be a plus all on its own.

I guess Cantona was one of the best at £1 million.

Its the ones where we have paid decent money and they turn out flat....I think we have had our unfair share of them.

[KentVillan]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its not like we haven't been here before.

I genuinely think we haven't been here before. And the closest we ever did come to this was a season where we got 17 points.

In 2015-16, we signed 14 players and sold or released 14. But we had Guzan, Okore, Clark, Hutton, Cissokho, Bacuna, Westwood, Sanchez, Gil, Grealish, and Agbonlahor (11 players) already established in the squad. Granted some of these players were dog turd, but they all started regularly, and had previous Premier League experience.

This season, we've signed 15 players and sold or released 23. The only regular starters already settled in the squad were Mings, Taylor, Hause, McGinn, El Ghazi, Grealish, and Hourihane (7 players), and that was in the Championship.

This season has been a unique challenge for Smith and Suso.

I don't think FFP would have allowed us to meet our requirements from UK signings alone, because they are so overpriced (especially if they have Premier League experience). So we had to go looking in the "mickey mouse" leagues, and we had no choice but to start these players as soon as they arrived, rather than giving them time to adapt, as most clubs do.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I genuinely think we haven't been here before. And the closest we ever did come to this was a season where we got 17 points.

In 2015-16, we signed 14 players and sold or released 14. But we had Guzan, Okore, Clark, Hutton, Cissokho, Bacuna, Westwood, Sanchez, Gil, Grealish, and Agbonlahor (11 players) already established in the squad. Granted some of these players were dog turd, but they all started regularly, and had previous Premier League experience.

This season, we've signed 15 players and sold or released 23. The only regular starters already settled in the squad were Mings, Taylor, Hause, McGinn, El Ghazi, Grealish, and Hourihane (7 players), and that was in the Championship.

This season has been a unique challenge for Smith and Suso.

I don't think FFP would have allowed us to meet our requirements from UK signings alone, because they are so overpriced (especially if they have Premier League experience). So we had to go looking in the "mickey mouse" leagues, and we had no choice but to start these players as soon as they arrived, rather than giving them time to adapt, as most clubs do.

FFP is no doubt a restriction we could well do without, it has changed the dynamics, where the top clubs already established, only have to replace 2-3 every season.

We have been playing catch up for so long and in 20 years have not made much progress just peaks & troughs.Martin O'Neill did ok with 6-6-6 which now looks amazing, despite making more bad buys than good, just shows how other clubs have eclipsed us.

I still think many of our players will want to go should we go down.

[VillaJ100]

To be honest has FFP even worked at keeping the top at the top? I'd argue not in the prem at least. Apart from the top 2 the traditional giants (utd, arsenal even Chelsea) are no great shakes anymore, and have got weaker since it came in when it should be the opoosite. City got in just before the drawbridge closed. And sadly for us we were bought a couple of years early or it might have been us. As it is we have total F*** you money and can't spend it

Edited February 7, 2020 by VillaJ100

[thabucks]

I think given the length of time they had to put plan A into action upon promotion knowing it all had to be down before the first game we did exceptionally well to build a squad which can compete to stay in the league. Was it enough ... only time will tell . Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and I would of chosen different players on certain area which were seemingly available but from an armchair that’s easy to say. Have faith and let’s see where we finish before judging the success of the recruitment... 

Edited February 7, 2020 by thabucks

[sne]

5 minutes ago, thabucks said:

I think given the length of time they had to put plan A into action upon promotion knowing it all had to be down before the first game we did exceptionally well to build a squad which can compete to stay in the league. Was it enough ... only time will tell . Hindsight’s a wonderful thing and I would of chosen different players on certain area which were seemingly available but from an armchair that’s easy to say. Have faith and let’s see where we finish before judging the success of the recruitment... 

Considering the window closed earlier last season than it has before it was made all the harder.

Villa and timing are seldom a good combo. Had the window been opened until September 1st like it will be this summer I imagine our squad would have looked a bit different.

It was 3 weeks shorter, that's 3 weeks we really could have used. Obviously goes for every team but our situation was extreme.

[romavillan]

4 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I genuinely think we haven't been here before. And the closest we ever did come to this was a season where we got 17 points.

In 2015-16, we signed 14 players and sold or released 14. But we had Guzan, Okore, Clark, Hutton, Cissokho, Bacuna, Westwood, Sanchez, Gil, Grealish, and Agbonlahor (11 players) already established in the squad. Granted some of these players were dog turd, but they all started regularly, and had previous Premier League experience.

This season, we've signed 15 players and sold or released 23. The only regular starters already settled in the squad were Mings, Taylor, Hause, McGinn, El Ghazi, Grealish, and Hourihane (7 players), and that was in the Championship.

This season has been a unique challenge for Smith and Suso.

I don't think FFP would have allowed us to meet our requirements from UK signings alone, because they are so overpriced (especially if they have Premier League experience). So we had to go looking in the "mickey mouse" leagues, and we had no choice but to start these players as soon as they arrived, rather than giving them time to adapt, as most clubs do.

Turnover of 38 is absolutely insane. All done within budget constraints too, per player we have paid nowhere near the going rate for Prem players on average. We couldn't either, getting in 15 at £20-£30m (that's poss low end prem player as well) a pop whilst our owners could afford it would not have been allowed by FFP. For the money we have spent we've done ok I reckon. We're still in the hunt to stay up and if we go down we won't be doing a 38 player turnover summer, we'll lose whoever isn't up for one season in the Championship and we'll sign what we need to come straight back up. We've guaranteed juicey parachute payments and will make good money on sales on the players that get picked off. Then the next time we come up it'll be a case of buying 4 or 5, rather than 15.

If we do stay up, then we'll be seeing far bigger fees for a 4 or 5 players and we can progress from there. The complete **** state of where Bruce, Wyness and Xia left us cannot be overstated.

[sidcow]

10 hours ago, nick76 said:

I also think recruitment is great in hindsight.  If you think back when we recruited players were you happy with signing that player.....

At the time I was happy with the signings of Joleon Lescott and Micah Richards. Seemed like we were signing experienced PL players who had performed well at the level. 

You just can never tell. 

Hell Ross McCormack seemed like a no brainer at the time. 

[MrBlack]

30 minutes ago, sidcow said:

At the time I was happy with the signings of Joleon Lescott and Micah Richards. Seemed like we were signing experienced PL players who had performed well at the level. 

You just can never tell. 

Hell Ross McCormack seemed like a no brainer at the time. 

That's the point.  We are acknowledging that we have this view looking back with hindsight.  Not saying that we didnt think they were good at the time.

Even if a fan did think they were good or bad on signing, its irrelevant, as there are people whose job it is to pay attention to football full time, and should know better than any fan, that thought the signings were worthwhile.

It is this that makes looking back and realising how much we failed, which justifies us saying how rubbish those people running the club were.

Also why I hope that for once I'm right in thinking the signings this season won't have us looking back in hindsight and saying "well that was a waste of money".

Edited February 7, 2020 by MrBlack
Typos

[VillaChris]

8 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

To be honest has FFP even worked at keeping the top at the top? I'd argue not in the prem at least. Apart from the top 2 the traditional giants (utd, arsenal even Chelsea) are no great shakes anymore, and have got weaker since it came in when it should be the opoosite. City got in just before the drawbridge closed. And sadly for us we were bought a couple of years early or it might have been us. As it is we have total F*** you money and can't spend it

All sides live and die by their signings really. It was only two years ago Liverpool were exciting to watch but were constantly letting in joke goals and were just about finishing in the top 4 so not much different to what Spurs and Chelsea are currently. Then they signed Van Dijk and Alisson and you know the rest.

Whereas the 11s Man. United and Arsenal are putting out nowadays are incredibly average compared to some of the great teams they've had in last 20 years and that's reflected in league position.

Man. City aren't exempt from this btw. They had a fantastic period of signings in the early few years of their takeover....Kompany, Zabaleta, Yaya, Fernandinho, Aguero, Tevez and David Silva. Kompany leadership been missed this season and 3 of those are still regular starters but are in their 30s now and will all need to be replaced in next 1-2 years.

Man. City will lose more leadership and Guardiola might have had enough aswell so I expect them to fall back into the pack.

Problem to me is there seems a bit of negativity about actually trying to sign decent players who can lift us up a level or two. You saw that when we were tentatively linked to Piatek...why would he come to us etc....he then goes and joins a relegation threatened Bundesliga club. Probably also a mindset of why any world class player would want to live in Birmingham....I assume most of Wolves good players live in the area so that's not an excuse anymore to me.

We need to shift that mindset and go after ambitious players who've already proven a decent amount at good levels imo. I do think likes of Purslow were getting a bid carried away after PO final which is understandble but it's clear the ownership won't just be happy to be bottom half in the league for next five years so interested how our transfer strategy will evolve over next two seasons.

Need to do the hard part and stay up of course first.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, romavillan said:

Turnover of 38 is absolutely insane. All done within budget constraints too, per player we have paid nowhere near the going rate for Prem players on average. We couldn't either, getting in 15 at £20-£30m (that's poss low end prem player as well) a pop whilst our owners could afford it would not have been allowed by FFP. For the money we have spent we've done ok I reckon. We're still in the hunt to stay up and if we go down we won't be doing a 38 player turnover summer, we'll lose whoever isn't up for one season in the Championship and we'll sign what we need to come straight back up. We've guaranteed juicey parachute payments and will make good money on sales on the players that get picked off. Then the next time we come up it'll be a case of buying 4 or 5, rather than 15.

If we do stay up, then we'll be seeing far bigger fees for a 4 or 5 players and we can progress from there. The complete **** state of where Bruce, Wyness and Xia left us cannot be overstated.

You make me fell better already.....bring on the 13 games.

Edited February 8, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

10 hours ago, VillaChris said:

All sides live and die by their signings really. It was only two years ago Liverpool were exciting to watch but were constantly letting in joke goals and were just about finishing in the top 4 so not much different to what Spurs and Chelsea are currently. Then they signed Van Dijk and Alisson and you know the rest.

Whereas the 11s Man. United and Arsenal are putting out nowadays are incredibly average compared to some of the great teams they've had in last 20 years and that's reflected in league position.

Man. City aren't exempt from this btw. They had a fantastic period of signings in the early few years of their takeover....Kompany, Zabaleta, Yaya, Fernandinho, Aguero, Tevez and David Silva. Kompany leadership been missed this season and 3 of those are still regular starters but are in their 30s now and will all need to be replaced in next 1-2 years.

Man. City will lose more leadership and Guardiola might have had enough aswell so I expect them to fall back into the pack.

Problem to me is there seems a bit of negativity about actually trying to sign decent players who can lift us up a level or two. You saw that when we were tentatively linked to Piatek...why would he come to us etc....he then goes and joins a relegation threatened Bundesliga club. Probably also a mindset of why any world class player would want to live in Birmingham....I assume most of Wolves good players live in the area so that's not an excuse anymore to me.

We need to shift that mindset and go after ambitious players who've already proven a decent amount at good levels imo. I do think likes of Purslow were getting a bid carried away after PO final which is understandble but it's clear the ownership won't just be happy to be bottom half in the league for next five years so interested how our transfer strategy will evolve over next two seasons.

Need to do the hard part and stay up of course first.

It might be worth noting, many football people have remarked that Sutton Coldfield and solihull where most of them gravitate to ,are very nice places to live......The ouskirts of Birmingham have some very nice towns like Lichfield & Warwick etc, too.

However you are so right.....teams do primarily live or die by their signings.

Edited February 8, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

14 hours ago, sidcow said:

At the time I was happy with the signings of Joleon Lescott and Micah Richards. Seemed like we were signing experienced PL players who had performed well at the level. 

You just can never tell. 

Hell Ross McCormack seemed like a no brainer at the time. 

I know what you are saying, and I guess i felt the same,at he time.

However, because we have been playing catch up for so long, we tend to try and fast track the route back......These players as experienced as they are,are on the way down, looking to sustain their hefty salaries as their prime concern....sadly it usually ends in tears.

Players like Gareth Barry have been the prudent signings, players on the way up, maybe Louie Barry, will prove to be the future strategy, we must pursue.

[sidcow]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know what you are saying, and I guess i felt the same,at he time.

However, because we have been playing catch up for so long, we tend to try and fast track the route back......These players as experienced as they are,are on the way down, looking to sustain their hefty salaries as their prime concern....sadly it usually ends in tears.

Players like Gareth Barry have been the prudent signings, players on the way up, maybe Louie Barry, will prove to be the future strategy, we must pursue.

There must be other players called Barry who we can recruit surely?