Recruitment

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

A lot of PL teams 'messed up' their recruitment this summer.

If you'd have asked me if we were signing Moise Kean, Alex Iwobi, Delph back, already having the likes of Sigurdsson, Bernard and Richarlison in our team in the summer, I would have been dancing around naked because I wouldn't believe what was happening.

That's Everton. The grand sum of 7 points ahead of us. With that level of transfer dealings and that quality in the squad.

We aren't perfect by any stretch, but I don't think the standard of player recruited was all bad. We simply have no depth. Numbers were the issue. We needed 2 LBs, we got 1. We needed 2 strikers, we got 1. As others have said, if ,for example, Trez has an off game, we have no one else to pick up the slack. 

I've been fuming at times (3-0 Watford on my bday, cheers lads) but we're well in this and maybe I'm mental but I see the coaching staff having the ability and the players finding the fight to do it.

Yeah this is a good point. 

A lb, striker and Benrahma and we probably look a lot different. 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

For me, the fact we are arguably no better as a team than we were last season having spent 140m and sitting in 18th place speaks volumes. 

It says that we didn't have a squad before we spent. It's irrelevant whether or not our team was better last year because there was no way of keeping that squad. Another year out of Jedi? Whelan? Hutton?

How do you replace a striker like Tammy, who's worth what now? 50m? Him playing in the Championship last season was a joke tbh. There's over a third of your 140m gone right there. 

140m sounds like a lot, but in this league now, it's 2.8 Sigurdsson's, 1.8 Harry Maguire's (who I wouldn't trade for Mings btw) or 2 Pepe's.

Money doesn't guarantee the signing will be a hit. Players costing less than 5m with no PL experience; some have been better than players costing 10x that.

It's truly a lottery.

 

[lapal_fan]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Look, I accept its all about opinions and yes circumstances can trip you up.....I would have gone for Bowen as opposed to Trezaguet.

I think losing Tammy was a bigger hit than anything we have faced, John Mc was struggling for form when he got injured, little did we know he was carrying a thigh tear.

I am not a scout and I do not have the plethora of information these clubs do......but I do know what attributes of a player are needed and where.

I too was not so hung up about Maupay, but I still think we could have spent the money better.

I am only guessing here, but I think Dean has less say in transfers than what is being let on.....He may tell them what he needs and then it is their interpretation, what that is....by then it gets tetchy if he says no.

something just don't quite sit with me.

Bowen would have cost £20-25m in the summer, Trez cost £8.75.  If you go to the Bowen thread, or the Jan transfer thread, I wrote a huge post saying we should be doing absolutely everything to sign him.  I was saying sign Bowen, he he scored his first senior goal against us in 2017.  But surely you can see the difference?  If we spent £20 on Bowen, then that's £11m we couldn't spend elsewhere.  Bowen MIGHT have scored 20 goals by now, but he would have been just as big of a gamble than Wes or Trez were.. We'll never know, but we can guess. 

I agree with Tammy going, but with Chelsea's transfer ban, this was his big chance to impress at his boyhood club.  If the stars had aligned and there was an opportunity to sign him, you're talking about a £30m kid, who's last season in the Prem scored 9 goals at Swansea - Are Wesley's stats really any worse?

I completely understand the argument that "the money could have been spent better".  But I bet that if every poster on VT had made a list of how they'd spend £140m last summer - No two lists would have been the same.   

What I'm trying to say (badly it seems) - is that we're stuck with what we have (for now).  We've got a brand new structure (18 months is no time at all in a large organisation), they all seem to working together (for the first time I've known) - even if we as fans don't agree with what they're doing - we have to give them more than 2 windows to turn the whole club around.  

And I'm willing to give it to them, because (in MY opinion), they've gone the right way about doing it. 

[lapal_fan]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

It says that we didn't have a squad before we spent. It's irrelevant whether or not our team was better last year because there was no way of keeping that squad. Another year out of Jedi? Whelan? Hutton?

How do you replace a striker like Tammy, who's worth what now? 50m? Him playing in the Championship last season was a joke tbh. There's over a third of your 140m gone right there. 

140m sounds like a lot, but in this league now, it's 2.8 Sigurdsson's, 1.8 Harry Maguire's (who I wouldn't trade for Mings btw) or 2 Pepe's.

Money doesn't guarantee the signing will be a hit. Players costing less than 5m with no PL experience; some have been better than players costing 10x that.

It's truly a lottery.

 

Thank you for not being shit at English and being able to explain something which has taken me a decent sized novel to even get near. 

WORDS ARE words removed. 

[Tomaszk]

29 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

What’s sustainable about buying players for 10/20m, getting relegated and then not being able to sell them for half the price you paid? 

There is nothing sustainable about spending 140m on players that may even struggle at Championship Level. 

They'll be like anchors round our neck if we drop.

[Rob182]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

• Rubbish, even Doris the tea lady wanted him.....we were all talking about a dominant CB
• I guess Courtinho was not bad bought, for c£8.5 mill  and sold for c £140 odd mill
• Guilbert, might be top of the stats, but gets caught out a lot as he did Saturday for their goal.

The patience thing is meaningless.....How can it be argued either way......so a player gets better and the argument shuts down.....a players does not improve and the argument gets washed away in the sands.

Patience is a virtue, but on its own its abstract....evidence of improvement has to be seen for patience to have a meaning.....improvement is incremental not a seismic change.

First point about Mings. Are you joking? Most people thought he was an injury prone left-back! The fact that our recruitment team spotted him as the solution to our problems should be applauded. They did exactly what it is that your original post is calling for us to do.

Second point about Coutinho. What's your point? You've said that we don't spot players, I've given you a recent example (McGinn). Again, other than questioning why we don't have a 100% success rate with transfers, I'm not sure what more the club could do.

[StefanAVFC]

I'm sorry but which players we bought will struggle at Championship level? I feel this is an overstated point that isn't nearly challenged enough.

[Blasterpocket68]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Look, I accept its all about opinions and yes circumstances can trip you up.....I would have gone for Bowen as opposed to Trezaguet.

I think losing Tammy was a bigger hit than anything we have faced, John Mc was struggling for form when he got injured, little did we know he was carrying a thigh tear.

I am not a scout and I do not have the plethora of information these clubs do......but I do know what attributes of a player are needed and where.

I too was not so hung up about Maupay, but I still think we could have spent the money better.

I am only guessing here, but I think Dean has less say in transfers than what is being let on.....He may tell them what he needs and then it is their interpretation, what that is....by then it gets tetchy if he says no.

something just don't quite sit with me.

Very difficult to build a team in the mould you want if you do not have the final say on transfers.

I understand the position the clubs been in  and the position we are in now. I believe Its unfair to suggest its not right or supportive not to question our recruitment. This is what VT is all about surely? Recruitment has been questionable . 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Bowen would have cost £20-25m in the summer, Trez cost £8.75.  If you go to the Bowen thread, or the Jan transfer thread, I wrote a huge post saying we should be doing absolutely everything to sign him.  I was saying sign Bowen, he he scored his first senior goal against us in 2017.  But surely you can see the difference?  If we spent £20 on Bowen, then that's £11m we couldn't spend elsewhere.  Bowen MIGHT have scored 20 goals by now, but he would have been just as big of a gamble than Wes or Trez were.. We'll never know, but we can guess. 

I agree with Tammy going, but with Chelsea's transfer ban, this was his big chance to impress at his boyhood club.  If the stars had aligned and there was an opportunity to sign him, you're talking about a £30m kid, who's last season in the Prem scored 9 goals at Swansea - Are Wesley's stats really any worse?

I completely understand the argument that "the money could have been spent better".  But I bet that if every poster on VT had made a list of how they'd spend £140m last summer - No two lists would have been the same.   

What I'm trying to say (badly it seems) - is that we're stuck with what we have (for now).  We've got a brand new structure (18 months is no time at all in a large organisation), they all seem to working together (for the first time I've known) - even if we as fans don't agree with what they're doing - we have to give them more than 2 windows to turn the whole club around.  

And I'm willing to give it to them, because (in MY opinion), they've gone the right way about doing it. 

I agree, we would all have different lists.....and I would have bought Sasa Curcic at the time so what do I know.

I thought 14 mill on Target, we could have saved money....but I take your point.

As for your last 2 Paragraphs....I totally agree.

We have to go with it, we have no choice....but we can still voice our opinions as bitter sweet as they can be.

or support another club and still have similar issues......after 60 years, I would find that difficult, its hard enough watching other teams.

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I thought 14 mill on Target, we could have saved money....but I take your point.

Who would you have bought for the Left Back position? Spending the same or less?

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm sorry but which players we bought will struggle at Championship level? I feel this is an overstated point that isn't nearly challenged enough.

Wes and Trez really can't do much can they?

Fulham signed Bryan over Targett, though I haven't seen huge amount of Bryan I've seen enough of Targett to know he'll be shining in the good games and crap in the bad. As will El Ghazi.

Marvelous and Hause on the ball are terrifying, that translates across all leagues.

You've got to picture them without Grealish holding their collective hand. Without Grealish taking the ball when everyone is shitting themselves.

Konsa and Engels are good signings I think. Obviously Mings and Heaton are brilliant.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Who would you have bought for the Left Back position? Spending the same or less?

not Targett

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Wes and Trez really can't do much can they?

Fulham signed Bryan over Targett, though I haven't seen huge amount of Bryan I've seen enough of Targett to know he'll be shining in the good games and crap in the bad. As will El Ghazi.

Marvelous and Hause on the ball are terrifying, that translates across all leagues.

You've got to picture them without Grealish holding their collective hand. Without Grealish taking the ball when everyone is shitting themselves.

Konsa and Engels are good signings I think. Obviously Mings and Heaton are brilliant.

'Wes and Trez'; Marvelous too both did very well in leagues with teams of a much higher standard than the Championship.

Targett went up with Fulham starting nearly every game, 2 seasons ago in the Championship. They signed Bryan for the PL.

Did they all have Grealish 'holding their hands for them'?

El Ghazi was good for us last season, in the Championship.

Hause played well for us, in the Championship.

This is a laboured point, I'm sorry. It's as if all of these players didn't have a career before Villa in a massive rebuild, in the PL. It's so narrow sighted.

Edited January 20, 2020 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

not Targett

Well thanks for your insight.

No point engaging if you're responding like that.

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Wes and Trez really can't do much can they?

Fulham signed Bryan over Targett, though I haven't seen huge amount of Bryan I've seen enough of Targett to know he'll be shining in the good games and crap in the bad. As will El Ghazi.

Marvelous and Hause on the ball are terrifying, that translates across all leagues.

You've got to picture them without Grealish holding their collective hand. Without Grealish taking the ball when everyone is shitting themselves.

Konsa and Engels are good signings I think. Obviously Mings and Heaton are brilliant.

highlighted the main thing I want to address.  

Grealish is a once in a generation player for us.  I have pretty much no reservation that the guy will be winning leagues and champions leagues in the next year or two and become David Beckham mk2 for England.  

What'll happen when he leaves is what happened when Platt left us, when Angel went to poop after his 23 goal season, when Barry left us - he'll be replaced by a new player and the latest player to really do well for us will be held in high regard.  

Villa will always have a hero. 

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

'Wes and Trez'; Marvelous too both did very well in leagues with teams of a much higher standard than the Championship.

Targett went up with Fulham starting nearly every game, 2 seasons ago in the Championship. They signed Bryan for the PL.

Did they all have Grealish 'holding their hands for them'?

El Ghazi was good for us last season, in the Championship.

Hause played well for us, in the Championship.

 

El Ghazi had 3/4 good games for us in the championship. That lad seems to get away with murder based on the fact he ‘has potential’. 

Really don’t see it with him. Think he’s bang average with the occasional good performance every 8 matches. 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

First point about Mings. Are you joking? Most people thought he was an injury prone left-back! The fact that our recruitment team spotted him as the solution to our problems should be applauded. They did exactly what it is that your original post is calling for us to do.

Second point about Coutinho. What's your point? You've said that we don't spot players, I've given you a recent example (McGinn). Again, other than questioning why we don't have a 100% success rate with transfers, I'm not sure what more the club could do.

• I was giving you another example of a prudent signing in addition to McGinn's example.
• Maybe its me, I just seen Tyrone as centre back and a very good one, bit on the tall side for a full back IMO....Yeah the club did well there, but I say again , most Villa fans saw it as an obvious signing, that needed to be done.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

El Ghazi had 3/4 good games for us in the championship. That lad seems to get away with murder based on the fact he ‘has potential’. 

Really don’t see it with him. Think he’s bang average with the occasional good performance every 8 matches. 

Thanks for the comments on one of the six mentioned.

What about the others?

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Who would you have bought for the Left Back position? Spending the same or less?

@TRO has said a few times he doesn't have knowledge of a wide range of players. That doesn't make him wrong to say Targett was bad value at £11-16m or whatever he was.

Manning from QPR we could have got for 3 or 4 million.

Phillip Max from Augsburg for £5-8m.

Anthony Caci from Strasbourg for £6-10m.

I would guess all of those would be on less money than Targett as well.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Tomaszk

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Well thanks for your insight.

No point engaging if you're responding like that.

But you’re asking him who he would have signed instead? What a silly question. The bloke isn’t a scout. He’s not paid 100’s of thousands of pounds to watch players across multiple leagues.

The argument of ‘well, who would you have signed’ is pathetic tbh. Not a slight on you as your posts always seem reasonable. 

There had to be a better LB available across all the leagues in the world than Targett for 14m. Just because we can’t give you a name, it doesn’t mean he isn’t out there.