The attitude towards our players

[Indigo]

I agree, I struggle to come on here/read anything on social media from non-media based Villa supporters because of it at times.

After last season where we got promoted and certain players were pivotal after bizarre abuse such as Hourihane (boo'd by a large portion of Villa Park), Grealish (when he was out of form a few games into the season you can go back on his thread and find people saying we'd wasted out chance to ever get £25 million for him by not selling to Spurs) and Tuanzebe (didn't play well at right back for a couple of games so was entirely written off as being good enough to play centre back) I thought it'd give people a bit more reserve and patience. 

I think if you support Villa you can understand being frustrated as a football fan as much as most, but sometimes it's so largely misplaced that it can become some toxic free-for-all. I say this as someone who's coming to the end of my tether with Wesley myself, but the abuse he gets at times has gotten to a point where it comes across as some almost actively wishes him to fail just so they can be proven right.

Granted this is the case for literally every other club, but the extreme circumstances we've operated under for the past few seasons have just made it a bit more prevalent in this case.

[nick76]

I agree, we have players just coming to this club, from foreign leagues, young, probably can’t speak the language and a big step up and if they aren’t delivering early into their time here we are told to write them off and sell them as soon as possible.

i don’t understand why a player can be developing fine but not exactly what we need now.  Seems that on this site and modern social media that it has to be black or white.  I watched a bit how Salah and De Bruyne were let go by Chelsea but now are now two of the best players in the league.  I’m not saying that’s going to happen to any of our players being world class eventually but writing off players so quickly just is plain silly.

[M_Afro]

We are still living with the damage caused by Lerner. A lot of the bad feeling that supporters still feel has been brewing since those days. He really was a shambolic owner. A well intentioned idiot if you will! 
This bad feeling will not erode over night but we have made huge strides as a club under our new owners. Sometimes it’s hard to see that but just look at where we were 18 months ago and compare it to where we are now. Even relegation would not be a disaster now, although hopefully it will be avoided. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 hours ago, ozvillafan said:

I highlighted what I thought was the most telling part.

In the last 10 years, smartphones and constant internet access have become the norm. This gives everybody the chance to vent immediately. Sadly, everything posted on the internet is public record and reaches a massive audience (including the players themselves).

Back in the good ol' days, you'd vent to your friends/family and then get a chance to contemplate and rethink things. Nowadays you have a willing audience who reacted just like you did, which reinforces your original perspective without the chance for reflection.

I only see 1 remedy for this: Keep off social media.

.... sadly, the next generation aren't listening to this advice.

 

True, and the other thing people need to also realise, is that it is not like before, where we could say "Oh come on these are multimillionaire footballers they aren't reading or care about what we say" (I used to also say this.

However, these are very young players, social media IS the new newspapers, radio and/or TV, of course they see it!

The fact that even Dean Smith comments on the Social Media comments should make that ever more evident.

Problem is if you try to tell people not to be overly negative, or to try their best to encourage you're called a "happy clapper" or a "bum licker".

As I've said in the Wesley thread a few times, ok fine, you think he is "shite", but the only thing worse than a "shite" player, is a "shite" player low on confidence. We get frustrated, find a Target, lock on and engage.

I've seen the likes of Guibert and Engels all of a sudden be slated as shite for a couple of below part performances (As a part of overall poor team performances I might add) when a couple of weeks ago all the talk was about how we won't be able to keep any of our better players... Lol.

Examples of our impatient, and unreasonable attitudes are on display in the form of a multitude of young players who were slaughtered here only to go on to be extremely solid or top players, many coming back to haunt us.

As a poster earlier said though, it is the culmination of our fear of the failure we have unfortunately become used to, extreme anxiety and watching the likes of Wolves, Tottenham, Everton etc surpass us when at one stage they weren't in our "league" of prestige. Being burnt by overpaid, minimal effort Representatives for Wellingborough and clueless managers and owners.

Villa are NOT an easy club to run, or play for at the moment.

Deano and the board are trying their best to bring the connection back but all of the above has people on edge, and rightly so to a degree.

Edited December 28, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Dr_Pangloss]

Nothing said on this forum will have an impact.

[MaVilla]

I was talking about this general theme over Christmas with friends / family.

Granted there have always been people talking about politics, players, whatever you care to mention.

The difference now is social media and the internet, all those people historically who wouldn't be given a voice or even remotely listened to because they were idiots, prats, thickos or the village idiot etc etc, now have a platform where they are an internet super warrior and their opinions can be heard instantly from the comfort of their bedroom.

I fear for my kids, in the old days any bullying, issues, fools or village idiots stopped when you went home, now its 24/7 and difficult to avoid unless you go against the norm and don't use social media.

Hopefully over time the social media and internet thing will sort itself out, but currently it's like the wild west, we are the first generations going through its early development, maybe it will get worse.....maybe it will get better....who knows.

My colleagues at work always joke with me about why I personally "don't do social media", and I joke back that it is because I think its "the devils work".

Granted its tongue in cheek, but I do kind of think it is currently, in a broad sense.

Edited December 28, 2019 by MaVilla

[hippo]

It's an age thing for me.

Many years ago if anyone said anything against Ray Graydon - I would be close to tears !

As I get older I get much more cynical - if a player isn't cutting it - it's because he isn't good enough.

I have less sympathy with overseas players coming into the toughest league in the world - the going rate for premier league player is £20-£30m  - bringing in an Egyptian with a fancy name for £10m always has the odds stacked against him being good enough - but as we don't really know his history - there is excitement always leading to the predictable disappointment and anger that would brought the guy in the first place.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by hippo

[PussEKatt]

For me, its mostly frustration.Villa have been ( and still are ) my team and have been my team for over 60 years and I want them to do well.I want them to win everything.To me Villa are the best there is, so I get frustrated and P...ed off when we dont do well.As far as I am concerned ( I am not a football tactician/analysist ) I think we have one of the best midfields in the division,IMHo our defence is at least average and our attack is non-existant,and we dont vary our tactics/formation.So I get angry and frustrated when we dont get any points at all and vent/show my feelings here.Punching a wall or kicking a large rock hurts.

Bottom line is.I want MY team to do well, and when they dont then I get really p...ed off............ Sorry,but I cant help feeling like that.   

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Didn't know where to put this, so I started a new topic. I don't know if it's the case, but I get the feeling that over the last years and especially the last months there have been a level of criticism towards our players that I haven't been used to on here.

I started supporting Villa as a kid in the early 90' and more or less idolised the players, having posters on the wall etc. It didn't come to my mind to criticise the players, they were my heros. In the good old mailing list I don't remember having the level of criticism towards the players that I see on here nowadays.

I don't really get the negativity against the players who wear our colours and who should be our heros. Especially when they work hard for the team, do their best and don't step out of line. No need to say there should of course be room for different opinions, criticising performances, attitudes, questioning ability etc, and of course we all have our outbursts and write things in anger and disappointment, but in some of the threads there is almost like an animosity against some of the players, constant negativity and overreactions.

Perhaps it's a general social media trend, people think it's alright to just spontaneously blurt out whatever they want, writing things they wouldn't say in person, I don't know. Just know that I don't like it, it's immature and lacks the respect I want Villa supporters to have. I'd prefer that attitude to stay on twitter or wherever.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a general feeling I wanted to share.  

Interesting post for its diversity.

we have to remember a fan base is made up of a kaleidoscope of personalities.....yes we support one cause, but each have our own views on the detail of it......"variety is the spice of life".....hence the different views.

I have never been a poster man myself and never hero worshiped them, even when i had a close relationship with one of our ex players, i just spoke to him as a mate.

I understand the frustration, if someone is slagging off a player you like, but as you know, every person thinks they are right.

Personally, I think this is the place to wear your heart on your sleeve...not in the stadium, where they are working to overcome the opposition and need our support.i

where i have a difference of opinion with some fans is workrate, i am clear in my mind who works hard and who doesn't.....unfortunately for me the whole team does not work hard......just some.

However, I am not about to tell folk how to watch a game.....but I know, that I have more knowledge of the game now, than when I was in my 30's...... .I guess it would follow that us fans learn as we go too like the players....i see things now, I didn't readily see in my youth.

My advice would be ....just follow your own heart on a player, listen to what others say, because thats how we learn, but make your own mind up.

ps you will never have a unilateral view on a player unless its the quality of Jack....who is just simply a standout player.....we all know social media brings out the worst in folk as their comments are not accountable.....so take them with a pinch of salt.

you know as well as me......a face to face conversation is very different from the phone, social media is just another extension of that.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by TRO

[villarule123]

It's been like this forever. We were like this when we were challenging for the top 4 10 years ago.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

I agree, we have players just coming to this club, from foreign leagues, young, probably can’t speak the language and a big step up and if they aren’t delivering early into their time here we are told to write them off and sell them as soon as possible.

i don’t understand why a player can be developing fine but not exactly what we need now.  Seems that on this site and modern social media that it has to be black or white.  I watched a bit how Salah and De Bruyne were let go by Chelsea but now are now two of the best players in the league.  I’m not saying that’s going to happen to any of our players being world class eventually but writing off players so quickly just is plain silly.

We can only say what we see.....what a player will do in the future is pure speculation on both sides of the argument.

but it is foolish to argue with what happens today, to what might happen in the future.....thats what the experts get paid to do.

look at Traore.....could anyone see that coming?....some obviously could Pulis and Nuno could.

There has been plenty of examples of players coming good, and players that have not.....its a gamble....but Nous and foresight alters the odds of getting it right.

I think pace is an interesting attribute that players rarely improve on, if they haven't got it its unlikely they will, so thats down to scouting.

 

[MarkLillis]

Over the last decade as a club we have had a habit of leaving our young players unsupported.

By that I mean that both on and off the pitch the older heads do not do what they are supposed to do.

On the pitch over recent years (last year an exception I think) the older players haven’t led well.Right now I feel sorry for Jack being at 24 one of our most experienced!!! 

Off the pitch I have listened to grown men spout utter rubbish about players they profess to support.So what do we expect the kids around them to do?

I do agree with the point that we do have a sense of entitlement at Villa.

I don’t know what to do to change that though.....we are a big club and only ten years ago were a top 4 contender for three consecutive seasons

How do you forget the past and just accept low standards? 

We are a very difficult club to play for and support!

[TRO]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

True, and the other thing people need to also realise, is that it is not like before, where we could say "Oh come on these are multimillionaire footballers they aren't reading or care about what we say" (I used to also say this.

However, these are very young players, social media IS the new newspapers, radio and/or TV, of course they see it!

The fact that even Dean Smith comments on the Social Media comments should make that ever more evident.

Problem is if you try to tell people not to be overly negative, or to try their best to encourage you're called a "happy clapper" or a "bum licker".

As I've said in the Wesley thread a few times, ok fine, you think he is "shite", but the only thing worse than a "shite" player, is a "shite" player low on confidence. We get frustrated, find a Target, lock on and engage.

I've seen the likes of Guibert and Engels all of a sudden be slated as shite for a couple of below part performances (As a part of overall poor team performances I might add) when a couple of weeks ago all the talk was about how we won't be able to keep any of our better players... Lol.

Examples of our impatient, and unreasonable attitudes are on display in the form of a multitude of young players who were slaughtered here only to go on to be extremely solid or top players, many coming back to haunt us.

As a poster earlier said though, it is the culmination of our fear of the failure we have unfortunately become used to, extreme anxiety and watching the likes of Wolves, Tottenham, Everton etc surpass us when at one stage they weren't in our "league" of prestige. Being burnt by overpaid, minimal effort Representatives for Wellingborough and clueless managers and owners.

Villa are NOT an easy club to run, or play for at the moment.

Deano and the board are trying their best to bring the connection back but all of the above has people on edge, and rightly so to a degree.

The one thing that will endear you to Villa fans is wokrate, desire and commitment.....we know players have to have talent, but the former is the biggest variables....talent is usually a constant ( can work on it ,of course) but work is the variable and at our level, key for me.

Personally, i see some of our players work their socks off and some others do not have the same level of work....so when folk say after a game we worked hard, i sometimes think is inaccurate, some did, some didn't.

fans will see the game differently and will have their own take on who does and who doesn't work.

Fwiw i don't think we can match teams like Sheff Utd, for getting all 10 outfielders grafting.....now accept some fans will think we do.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

The one thing that will endear you to Villa fans is wokrate, desire and commitment.....we know players have to have talent, but the former is the biggest variables....talent is usually a constant ( can work on it ,of course) but work is the variable and at our level, key for me.

Personally, i see some of our players work their socks off and some others do not have the same level of work....so when folk say after a game we worked hard, i sometimes think is inaccurate, some did, some didn't.

fans will see the game differently and will have their own take on who does and who doesn't work.

Fwiw i don't think we can match teams like Sheff Utd, for getting all 10 outfielders grafting.....now accept some fans will think we do.

 

You always comment on this, and I have to agree.

Now that Liverpool performance... that was work!

I think most of us commented on here that if we played like/worked like that every week, we would get a result from or beat most teams!

Don't know where it went.

Edited December 28, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You always comment on this, and I have to agree.

Now that Liverpool performance... that was work!

I think most of us commented on here that if we played like/worked like that every week, we would get a result from or beat most teams!

Don't know where it went.

Totally agree.....I was watched Villa through the Saunders years, where workrate was our Mantra..

but you are right, Liverpool with all their talent would be excused for slacking off.

not trying to pick on him.....but watching El Ghazi closely during our last 2 games his work rate was pants.... i don't take kindly to it and i am not going to accept it or dismiss it ....in order to support the team.

we support the team in the ground.....on here we should be able to say what we feel.

[villalad21]

Just now, TRO said:

Totally agree.....I was watched Villa through the Saunders years, where workrate was our Mantra..

but you are right, Liverpool with all their talent would be excused for slacking off.

not trying to pick on him.....but watching El Ghazi closely during our last 2 games his work rate was pants.... i don't take kindly to it and i am not going to accept it or dismiss it ....in order to support the team.

we support the team in the ground.....on here we should be able to say what we feel.

Liverpool had enough opportunities on that day to win the game 4 or 5-1.

They were extremely wasteful on the day.

We fought well on the day, but Liverpool still created more than enough chances.

[sne]

Work rate is a start, the absolute minimum we should expect from every player. Work rate alone isn't even good enough in the SPL or the Championship.

Some rated Hutton because he looked like he really tried and had good attitude. But he had little ability, terrible positioning and often did more harm than good.

I have much more time for a guy like Hourihane who even thou he is bypassed and "powderpuff" in some games still has ability and intelligence.

At the end of the day you obviously want your players to have both ability and attitude, ATM it's pretty much only Grealish who has this for us.

[MattVillaPortsmouth]

I only hope ‘some’ in here don’t go watch their children play or even coach them (I say this with 10 years experience as a local club volunteer), I have seen first hand how that has an adverse effect.

just a little bit of time and realism go a long way

[Villan4Life]

Villalad21 at it again?

Don't feed that troll.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Villan4Life

[Adam2003]

11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

It's this that bothers me. We have players in the current squad whose only crime is to have made a couple of honest mistakes in a game.

I think our current squad seems like a good bunch of lads who put in a shift, both in training and on match day. They're very young, some of them are a bit out of their depth. No need to go after them like some people are.

And then when they get bombed out partly because the crowd turns on them and they go on to have good careers elsewhere, we will act surprised. Couldn’t agree more with your point.