The attitude towards our players

[brummybloke]

It takes repeated very poor performance for me to deem any of our player "shit" 

And by poor performance I mean lack of anything good repeatedly. Only 1 player has had me saying that.

Others have been repeatedly poor, although only probably 2 or 3 of them.

And I feel for most who eventually use terms like "shit" have had enough of certain players doing nothing and getting away with being picked every single week.

 

[Adam2003]

53 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

It takes repeated very poor performance for me to deem any of our player "shit" 

And by poor performance I mean lack of anything good repeatedly. Only 1 player has had me saying that.

Others have been repeatedly poor, although only probably 2 or 3 of them.

And I feel for most who eventually use terms like "shit" have had enough of certain players doing nothing and getting away with being picked every single week.

 

It’s not “eventually” though is it? Maybe it is for you but the current latest post on the Jota thread (as an example) is “he is nowhere near a PL player soft as shite and should never start a game again”

He has started what? Two PL games ever? It’s hardly basing an opinion on repeated disappointment.

[brummybloke]

7 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

It’s not “eventually” though is it? Maybe it is for you but the current latest post on the Jota thread (as an example) is “he is nowhere near a PL player soft as shite and should never start a game again”

He has started what? Two PL games ever? It’s hardly basing an opinion on repeated disappointment.

So ? People are quick to praise and just as quick to be critical ?

People are entitled to their opinion, it doesnt make them better or worse than the next fan.

Watching your team play like they are, gutless and weak with little skill or desire to challenge or go fo 50 50 balls. You seriously expect people to not go over the top reacting ? 

Some will be horrid or personal about a player, no need for that but if it looks like shit smells like shit and tastes like shit.. odds are it's a shit

 

[Adam2003]

7 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

So ? People are quick to praise and just as quick to be critical ?

People are entitled to their opinion, it doesnt make them better or worse than the next fan.

Watching your team play like they are, gutless and weak with little skill or desire to challenge or go fo 50 50 balls. You seriously expect people to not go over the top reacting ? 

Some will be horrid or personal about a player, no need for that but if it looks like shit smells like shit and tastes like shit.. odds are it's a shit

 

The passage I quoted from you, and your use of words like ‘eventually’, ‘repeatedly’ etc suggested these were decisions made over a long time. My reply was that they aren’t, they are generally quick decisions. Now you seem to be agreeing that they are quick decisions but saying “it’s fine for them to be quick decisions” - fine with me, but not what your first post said and not what I picked up on.

[brummybloke]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

The passage I quoted from you, and your use of words like ‘eventually’, ‘repeatedly’ etc suggested these were decisions made over a long time. My reply was that they aren’t, they are generally quick decisions. Now you seem to be agreeing that they are quick decisions but saying “it’s fine for them to be quick decisions” - fine with me, but not what your first post said and not what I picked up on.

No, you've part picked what I said which seems typical of various posters and tried twisting it by combining 2 different posts.

I haven't at all said 

"it’s fine for them to be quick decisions"

Why are you making up quotes that were never said ?

Weird why you would make something up like that ?

 

[Adam2003]

Just now, brummybloke said:

No, you've part picked what I said which seems typical of various posters and tried twisting it by combining 2 different posts.

I haven't at all said 

"it’s fine for them to be quick decisions"

Why are you making up quotes that were never said ?

Weird why you would make something up like that ?

 

Not a lot of point us going back and forth on it. I’m not trying to have an argument here. I was just making the point that where you had said you took a long time to make decisions, some people don’t do that. You then started saying about better/worse fans etc which I hadn’t said anything about. Maybe we both got the wrong end of the stick.

[brummybloke]

23 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Not a lot of point us going back and forth on it. I’m not trying to have an argument here. I was just making the point that where you had said you took a long time to make decisions, some people don’t do that. You then started saying about better/worse fans etc which I hadn’t said anything about. Maybe we both got the wrong end of the stick.

I said I personally dont choose to say a player is terrible until I have witnessed their awfulness several times. That's my choice.

I then said people will have an instant reaction good or bad and if they do it doesnt make them wrong or not entitled to that opinion.

Everyone is upset at the moment and I can understand everyones reactions be it anger, rage or even despondent.

 

[villa4europe]

Luiz tweeted a picture of himself relaxing in the sun today

First comment that came up - why aren't you on the training pitch you've been shit last couple of games

 

[omariqy]

Our fans are toxic and a big reason why we struggle so much at times. At this point in our season we are well in with a shout of staying up and up until 3 weeks ago we looked a match for anyone. Yes we have been poor but it wasn't that long ago we were talking about how if we tightened up at the back we could shoot up the league. The players are the same. We just lack confidence. Mings coming back will help of course. McGinn is a massive loss albeit he has been poor for a while now. Imagine if our home fans could recreate the atmosphere against Everton earlier on in the season. We would survive purely on home form. 

[Elton]

9 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Our fans are toxic and a big reason why we struggle so much at times. At this point in our season we are well in with a shout of staying up and up until 3 weeks ago we looked a match for anyone. Yes we have been poor but it wasn't that long ago we were talking about how if we tightened up at the back we could shoot up the league. The players are the same. We just lack confidence. Mings coming back will help of course. McGinn is a massive loss albeit he has been poor for a while now. Imagine if our home fans could recreate the atmosphere against Everton earlier on in the season. We would survive purely on home form. 

Totally agree on the last bit particularly. Although every club has elements of it’s fan base that are toxic. I don’t think this is the exclusive reserve of Villa fans, I suspect it’s every big club that is currently underachieving, Arsenal, Everton, Man U, West Ham etc will be the same, if not worse.

Social media and forums aren’t representative of the mood at the grounds though, well at least until we go behind. It’s difficult for fans to continually be up for it like the Everton game which was exceptionally good. The poor results ebb away at the confidence of fans as well as players and then of course it’s counter productive unfortunately.

[Stratvillan]

Don't buy into the toxic fans bit. Theres little evidence away from the forums that this is currently the case. 

This isn't counting the odd barmy one dotted around the ground. 

[AVTuco]

14 hours ago, omariqy said:

Our fans are toxic and a big reason why we struggle so much at times. At this point in our season we are well in with a shout of staying up and up until 3 weeks ago we looked a match for anyone. Yes we have been poor but it wasn't that long ago we were talking about how if we tightened up at the back we could shoot up the league. The players are the same. We just lack confidence. Mings coming back will help of course. McGinn is a massive loss albeit he has been poor for a while now. Imagine if our home fans could recreate the atmosphere against Everton earlier on in the season. We would survive purely on home form. 

People were talking about the horrible fixture list and were expecting better against the bottom three. What's happened is we're looking terrible, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

We're only one point off, so that's good. But our form is atrocious.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Atmosphere was shit against Norwich. Not a patch on how it was early on the season. All  you could hear were the moans and groans with the occasional come on you yellows.  Allez Allez Alez was always half hearted and ended with a whimper. The home fans aren’t getting behind the team enough in my opinion and players short of confidence are being affected by this. 

[KentVillan]

19 hours ago, Stratvillan said:

Don't buy into the toxic fans bit. Theres little evidence away from the forums that this is currently the case. 

This isn't counting the odd barmy one dotted around the ground. 

I don't think our fans in the stadium are necessarily "toxic", but we behave more like a mid-table Premier League club who have surprisingly dropped into the relegation zone, rather than what we are: a newly promoted team with loads of inexperienced players and an inexperienced coach.

This means the atmosphere can go a bit dead when we aren't dominating a game. It's like everybody's forgotten the last few years, and is just acting like we never got relegated.

[MaVilla]

5 hours ago, AVTuco said:

People were talking about the horrible fixture list and were expecting better against the bottom three. What's happened is we're looking terrible, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

We're only one point off, so that's good. But our form is atrocious.

The problem is, we are one point off safety, having played the teams immediately around us, where if we weren't terrible we could be near mid table right now.

The fact we are still where we are after the last three games, really doesn't bode well unless we improve and start picking up points immediately.

The signings we do or don't make in Jan will define whether we stay up or go down tbh, our current wide options just aren't good enough. (They may be if they develop, but right now, no)

Edited December 31, 2019 by MaVilla

[terrytini]

53 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Atmosphere was shit against Norwich. Not a patch on how it was early on the season. All  you could hear were the moans and groans with the occasional come on you yellows.  Allez Allez Alez was always half hearted and ended with a whimper. The home fans aren’t getting behind the team enough in my opinion and players short of confidence are being affected by this. 

Agree.

For example your point about “ allez” is a good one. It IS overdone, true, but the half arsed ness of it is almost embarrassing. 
 

Just a few months ago - when we were winning - we even had the old codgers in the Trinity joining in....now, silence.

Our much hyped fan base is recognised as being a great benefit to the team when it gets behind them. The converse is true.

Cue...

” oh don’t blame the fans/ give us something to cheer/we pay our money we are entitled”........

.....nothing which alters the basic truth, nobody would want to play in front of that.

 

And at Watford it was so bad it became my last away game, finished for good, tickets for Burnley, Fulham Leicester and Brighton will all stay in a drawer.

From the start, little singing, which is bad enough. Far worse though was the amount of people - right form kick off - who were silent at everything we tried unless it went wrong, then were shouting their criticism. 

At the end of the game 20% of us applauded the team, 40% were silent( fair enough after that display) but 40%, many of whom were calling the players to come over, seized their chance to shout abuse. Jack, when he heard it, gave a dismissive “ bol## to you then” gesture and turned on his heels.

That's the trouble with the whole thing about criticism. It starts as a few comments on the net, then it becomes serial complaints, and slowly the overall mood changes, and spreads to the games. Then those who want to remain positive give up, shut up, or stop going.

When we beat Norwich - who finished way ahead of us - at their place, their fans stuck with them throughout. We are - yet again, for the umpteenth time in the last 10 years, at the stage where half our fan base begins games expecting failure and responding accordingly.

I already know how enraged some will be at the very idea that the fans are playing a part in what’s happening. But every single sport from cricket to football to athletics to golf recognises the benefits of a positive crowd and the perils of one that is not so.

I hoped there would be a mood of hope and celebration about this season. I should’ve known better. I - and a couple of others I know - are closer and closer to forgetting the whole thing. Won’t be because we lose football matches, most fans of most teams accept that..but because of the surrounding negative ‘noise’. 

[terrytini]

20 hours ago, Stratvillan said:

Don't buy into the toxic fans bit. Theres little evidence away from the forums that this is currently the case. 

This isn't counting the odd barmy one dotted around the ground. 

Were you at Watford ?

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 

I hoped there would be a mood of hope and celebration about this season. I should’ve known better.

I hoped there would be, but doubted it.

Discussed it in the home attendances thread, but we brought back thousands of fans to pack out the ST list who suddenly expect winning, people who didn't go to games in the Championship suddenly decided they wanted a ST. The first few games were fantastic this season, Everton especially, but the atmosphere has gradually changed to the point that it's thoroughly miserable being at VP again now. I don't blame people for losing a bit of enthusiasm when we're playing badly throughout a match, but the negativity is there right from kick off at the moment.

There's absolutely 0 chance we have a ST waiting list next season, it'll be back to low to mid 30s unless something changes massively.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Davkaus

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I hoped there would be, but doubted it.

Discussed it in the home attendances thread, but we brought back thousands of fans to pack out the ST list who suddenly expect winning, people who didn't go to games in the Championship suddenly decided they wanted a ST. The first few games were fantastic this season, Everton especially, but ther atmosphere has gradually changed to the point that it's thoroughly miserable being at VP again now.

There's absolutely 0 chance we have a ST waiting list next season, it'll be back to low to mid 30s unless something changes massively.

I definitely get the impression a whole load of fans have come out of the woodwork. People who might have paid attention to the derby games in the Championship, but had otherwise stopped caring.

Nothing wrong with that really, but it's easier to be realistic about this season if you've followed the progress.

[AV82]

I'm starting to think our shit attitude/atmosphere is more than half of the problem.

You can hear the groans around the stadium when we make one pass backwards in an effort to relieve pressure / retain the ball / rest on the ball (pick one). The majority of our shit, negative fanbase expect every pass to be an incisive through ball. Testament to this is the constant "shooooot" that rings out when Douglas is on the ball anywhere in the opponent's half. Clueless.
 

Edited December 31, 2019 by AV82