The attitude towards our players

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

The one thing that will endear you to Villa fans is wokrate, desire and commitment.....we know players have to have talent, but the former is the biggest variables....talent is usually a constant ( can work on it ,of course) but work is the variable and at our level, key for me.

Personally, i see some of our players work their socks off and some others do not have the same level of work....so when folk say after a game we worked hard, i sometimes think is inaccurate, some did, some didn't.

fans will see the game differently and will have their own take on who does and who doesn't work.

Fwiw i don't think we can match teams like Sheff Utd, for getting all 10 outfielders grafting.....now accept some fans will think we do.

 

I think this used to be true but now even if someone works his arse off all I see from his critics is “well they get paid enough, I’m not giving them credit for working hard.” Which I don’t disagree with but I think the days of saying Villa fans respect players who work hard is over.

[MikeMcKenna]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Interesting post for its diversity.

we have to remember a fan base is made up of a kaleidoscope of personalities.....yes we support one cause, but each have our own views on the detail of it......"variety is the spice of life".....hence the different views.

I have never been a poster man myself and never hero worshiped them, even when i had a close relationship with one of our ex players, i just spoke to him as a mate.

I understand the frustration, if someone is slagging off a player you like, but as you know, every person thinks they are right.

Personally, I think this is the place to wear your heart on your sleeve...not in the stadium, where they are working to overcome the opposition and need our support.i

where i have a difference of opinion with some fans is workrate, i am clear in my mind who works hard and who doesn't.....unfortunately for me the whole team does not work hard......just some.

However, I am not about to tell folk how to watch a game.....but I know, that I have more knowledge of the game now, than when I was in my 30's...... .I guess it would follow that us fans learn as we go too like the players....i see things now, I didn't readily see in my youth.

My advice would be ....just follow your own heart on a player, listen to what others say, because thats how we learn, but make your own mind up.

ps you will never have a unilateral view on a player unless its the quality of Jack....who is just simply a standout player.....we all know social media brings out the worst in folk as their comments are not accountable.....so take them with a pinch of salt.

you know as well as me......a face to face conversation is very different from the phone, social media is just another extension of that.

 

 

 

 

This has always been my view. I support Aston Villa and hero worship no individual player. Back in the day I really admired Andy Gray, John Gidman as players for their skill, work rate etc and was gutted when they left but the rest is history... the club carried on and won the league, European Cup. That said, I hero worshipped Ron Saunders. As far as he was concerned, the ONLY people who mattered were the fans. For him, the players were workers paid to do a job. IMHO it is the managers job to remind them who pays their wages.

However, I largely agree with the original post. Fans are very quick nowadays to criticise managers/players when things are going wrong. Sadly nothing is going to change as we live at a time of instant gratification. Booing the team or slagging a player never achieves anything and simply makes it harder for players to lift themselves. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by MikeMcKenna

[Vive_La_Villa]

It’s the disconnect between players and fans. It’s almost like they aren’t seen as human. If they are not playing well or are making mistakes then they are words removes and deserve abuse. The ironic thing this abuse just negatively affects their game even more

Ive always supported our players as long as they are putting a shift in and trying their best. Any laziness and/or a bad attitude is when it’s not acceptable.

[KenjiOgiwara]

I actually think the majority of our new signings have been rather okey.

I think Luiz is good and has shown despite being a bit naive defensively, he has moments that makes you think he is a level above everyone else.

Marvelous has been very good as a straight DMC at times, and other times he has been poor. Especially outside this position. I think this is typical for players finding their feet in a new league. 

Targett is likewise up and down. He's been instrumental in our attacking plays at times, and sometimes he looks completely lost. 

Guilbert I think is great. He's been very good, despite a few poor performances. 

Heaton top notch.

Konsa looks much better than expected. 
Hause has been very solid defensively, but his distribution is kinda shite. But as a total punt he's surprised me.

Mings has been exceptional.

Engels has largely been very good, despite like Guilbert a few dodgy matches as well.

Trez is probably the rawest player I've seen. He seems to have ability, but he comes across as bambi at times, and you just get the feeling he needs to settle down and do things simpler.

El Ghazi has been solid, but his sulking is rather annoying. And shit defensively. 

Wesley is really the only player I think has been a total **** of a signing. I just can't see what, why or how, he will ever be a first team player or why he was signed as such. But even him can develop given the time out of the spot light. 

In general we just got to give them time. Players do develop. Plenty of players have looked absolutely lost their first season and come back as a different player. We can probably name a few Villa players here right away, and we all know it. 

[screwdriver]

These guys earn fortunes and can't do the basics. 

If you think El Gazi should get plaudits for his double step overs but constantly cost villa goals by not tracking his runners and not get pelters you're in dream land.

 

 

 

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I think this used to be true but now even if someone works his arse off all I see from his critics is “well they get paid enough, I’m not giving them credit for working hard.” Which I don’t disagree with but I think the days of saying Villa fans respect players who work hard is over.

sadly, you might be right.

[Dr_Pangloss]

Well the attitude is only going to get worse but how many spineless and inept performances can a set of players consistently deliver and not incite anger towards them. The level of effort this lot are showing, let alone the level of 'quality', is frankly embarrassing. It's giving me flash backs of the Remi Garde days. 

[dudevillaisnice]

Have to agree. We sell out most games the support is there away from home and at home. They (the club) have let us down far too often over the years and people are sick of it. 

[Zatman]

social media has poisoned the football fans into believing that its only brilliant or shit, no player has an OK game anymore its one or the other. Too many cretins also taking it too personal, i have seen posts not on here wishing some players just died FFS. 

On Villa Park, we have a well known reputation from ex footballers that if we arent winning after 20 minutes the fans will turn on the players and make it easier for the opposition. Have heard this many times from non Villa players in the media

[wilko154]

Easy to blame the fans but at the end of the day they are paying their hard earned money to watch Aston Villa play football. If they turn up and you can visibly see the team aren't performing then the atmosphere suffers and the reaction to the players suffers.

The last few games has seen our players bottling tackles, not fighting for second balls, not being able to retain possession, going missing and simply looking for Jack at every opportunity.

Smith has to take a lot of blame for this, his team selections and changes in game have been dismal in the last few weeks and the fans are now beginning to turn on him and the players.

We saw it last season and the start of this season; if the players battle and at least have a go then the fans will be behind them 100% and the atmosphere around the club is something special. Right now we have nothing to get behind and the players are taking the brunt of the blame.

[KentVillan]

30 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Easy to blame the fans but at the end of the day they are paying their hard earned money to watch Aston Villa play football. If they turn up and you can visibly see the team aren't performing then the atmosphere suffers and the reaction to the players suffers.

The last few games has seen our players bottling tackles, not fighting for second balls, not being able to retain possession, going missing and simply looking for Jack at every opportunity.

Smith has to take a lot of blame for this, his team selections and changes in game have been dismal in the last few weeks and the fans are now beginning to turn on him and the players.

We saw it last season and the start of this season; if the players battle and at least have a go then the fans will be behind them 100% and the atmosphere around the club is something special. Right now we have nothing to get behind and the players are taking the brunt of the blame.

This is a fair take on it, although I think some of this perceived lack of fight is down to players being tactically exposed and unsure of their decision making. It's not necessarily about character.

Aggression and intensity have to be channelled intelligently. We've all seen young players get fired up for derby games and all it results in is a couple of pointless bookings and an early bath.

What I think this team is really missing is a bit of leadership and experience. Dean has tried to use players like Elmo and Lansbury to overcome this, but they just aren't up to the standard physically anymore (if they ever were).

Heaton rushing out of his goal to stop Jack from getting himself sent off was the perfect example of how lacking in mature leadership figures we are. It shouldn't need your goalkeeper to do that, but he was the only player out there yesterday with any significant Premier League experience.

Last season, we had Whelan, who brought a lot of calm and wisdom to the midfield during our run to the playoffs. Now clearly Whelan wouldn't have been able to hack it in the Premier League, but I think we needed to sign a direct replacement for him in the summer. Instead we signed a lot of talented kids. I still believe most of them will come good, but they're just floundering a bit now we're playing the attritional "grown up" football that defines this part of the season.

None of these kids is individually to blame for the situation, nor deserving of the abuse. But collectively it makes us look a bit soft and lacklustre.

I always mention Leicester's signing of Cambiasso when they were last promoted to the Premier League. It was an inspired move. Completely short-term in nature, but helped them to settle in, and no doubt his teammates learnt a lot from him in that season. We should have done something similar.

Edited December 29, 2019 by KentVillan

[sne]

6 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

 

I always mention Leicester's signing of Cambiasso when they were last promoted to the Premier League. It was an inspired move. Completely short-term in nature, but helped them to settle in, and no doubt his teammates learnt a lot from him in that season. We should have done something similar.

Moutinho at Wolves is another example

[Adam2003]

34 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Easy to blame the fans but at the end of the day they are paying their hard earned money to watch Aston Villa play football. If they turn up and you can visibly see the team aren't performing then the atmosphere suffers and the reaction to the players suffers.

This is of course true, and I don’t think anyone is blaming the fans - but it is a fact that opposing teams don’t turn up at Everton or Newcastle or any comparable club to us saying “dominate the opening 20 minutes and the fans will turn on them.” And they have been saying that about Villa Park for at least 15 years. Obviously they then need to do that and our team should be really aware of it, but sometimes I think our fans don’t accept that we are singled out as a special case by opposition managers/players. We are.

This is not a criticism of our supporters - it’s astonishing we have 40,000 people there every week. I love seeing it. But the sad thing is Smith is in some ways responsible for it - the crowds came flocking back second half of last season - and now is starting to lose them.

[Adam2003]

9 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

This is a fair take on it, although I think some of this perceived lack of fight is down to players being tactically exposed and unsure of their decision making. It's not necessarily about character.

Aggression and intensity have to be channelled intelligently. We've all seen young players get fired up for derby games and all it results in is a couple of pointless bookings and an early bath.

What I think this team is really missing is a bit of leadership and experience. Dean has tried to use players like Elmo and Lansbury to overcome this, but they just aren't up to the standard physically anymore (if they ever were).

Heaton rushing out of his goal to stop Jack from getting himself sent off was the perfect example of how lacking in mature leadership figures we are. It shouldn't need your goalkeeper to do that, but he was the only player out there yesterday with any significant Premier League experience.

Last season, we had Whelan, who brought a lot of calm and wisdom to the midfield during our run to the playoffs. Now clearly Whelan wouldn't have been able to hack it in the Premier League, but I think we needed to sign a direct replacement for him in the summer. Instead we signed a lot of talented kids. I still believe most of them will come good, but they're just floundering a bit now we're playing the attritional "grown up" football that defines this part of the season.

None of these kids is individually to blame for the situation, nor deserving of the abuse. But collectively it makes us look a bit soft and lacklustre.

I always mention Leicester's signing of Cambiasso when they were last promoted to the Premier League. It was an inspired move. Completely short-term in nature, but helped them to settle in, and no doubt his teammates learnt a lot from him in that season. We should have done something similar.

Completely agree with this. We are short a couple of wise heads. The same people who would manage games when we have been leading with a few minutes left - a bunch of 23 year olds will not always be able to do that. January is a big month for us whatever happens!

[villa4europe]

I think the nerves and defeatist nature of our fans is definitely feeding in to the players in an unhealthy way

Wait and see how many fans declare smiths line up vs Burnley as **** clueless and it as a loss before a balls kicked and then the glee they have after with "told you so" 

We are a negative fan base 

Its part of why we are playing shit 

And before anyone comes in with **** em they're millionaires they should grow some bollocks it simply doesn't work like that 

Edited December 29, 2019 by villa4europe

[MarkLillis]

23 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

This is a fair take on it, although I think some of this perceived lack of fight is down to players being tactically exposed and unsure of their decision making. It's not necessarily about character.

Aggression and intensity have to be channelled intelligently. We've all seen young players get fired up for derby games and all it results in is a couple of pointless bookings and an early bath.

What I think this team is really missing is a bit of leadership and experience. Dean has tried to use players like Elmo and Lansbury to overcome this, but they just aren't up to the standard physically anymore (if they ever were).

Heaton rushing out of his goal to stop Jack from getting himself sent off was the perfect example of how lacking in mature leadership figures we are. It shouldn't need your goalkeeper to do that, but he was the only player out there yesterday with any significant Premier League experience.

Last season, we had Whelan, who brought a lot of calm and wisdom to the midfield during our run to the playoffs. Now clearly Whelan wouldn't have been able to hack it in the Premier League, but I think we needed to sign a direct replacement for him in the summer. Instead we signed a lot of talented kids. I still believe most of them will come good, but they're just floundering a bit now we're playing the attritional "grown up" football that defines this part of the season.

None of these kids is individually to blame for the situation, nor deserving of the abuse. But collectively it makes us look a bit soft and lacklustre.

I always mention Leicester's signing of Cambiasso when they were last promoted to the Premier League. It was an inspired move. Completely short-term in nature, but helped them to settle in, and no doubt his teammates learnt a lot from him in that season. We should have done something similar.

Excellent post.

I would like to see how someone with  an opposite opinion would argue with this common sense statement.

Edited December 29, 2019 by MarkLillis

[sne]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think the nerves and defeatist nature of our fans is definitely feeding in to the players in an unhealthy way

Wait and see how many fans declare smiths line up vs Burnley as **** clueless and it as a loss before a balls kicked and then the glee they have after with "told you so" 

We are a negative fan base 

Its part of why we are playing shit 

And before anyone comes in with **** em they're millionaires they should grow some bollocks it simply doesn't work like that 

And the other way round as well.

[Dr_Pangloss]

For me there's a sense that this team is about to hit Remi Garde levels of effort, yesterday was every bit as spineless and effortless (outside of one or two) as what we saw under Remi. One away to get fans on your back is to put in spineless displays week in and week out and that's where it seems to be heading.

[KHV]

11 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

For me there's a sense that this team is about to hit Remi Garde levels of effort, yesterday was every bit as spineless and effortless (outside of one or two) as what we saw under Remi. One away to get fans on your back is to put in spineless displays week in and week out and that's where it seems to be heading.

It’s embarrassing 

Even with 10 men when we lost possession Watford were in our box after 3 or 4 passes

I don’t know why Smith is being allowed to continue

Its quite clear the players have downed tools on him

There is no tracking back, zero movement, zero ideas

Dean keeps chopping and changing each week

He has clearly run out of ideas and has zero clue what to do to get a tune out of any of them

The fact that he was winging about their second goal so much tells you all you need to know. There was nothing wrong with the goal other than your team is an utter shit show Mr Smith

Your right, this is like watching Remi Garde all over again

[newhavenhibby]

I think all the comments about social media and phone access even at the games are spot on. It is very easy to make comments and say things to a screen that you probably wouldn't have had a chance to say when I started to go down Villa Park in the early 70's......except to a few friends in the boozer. In those days there was no squad system and if fit, I could name the Villa side who would play the day before and they were heroes and idolised  and the odd mistake was accepted. ( no social media then to go on and rant about how poor they were that day)  Now the negativity is infectious and this forum is no different to any other where the team is doing poorly. When I sit in Easter Road at least half the fans around me are watching and using their phones to be able to be within immediate touch of what else is going on and comment accordingly.

Hibs.net a couple of months was full of this type of negativity when fans were unhappy with Heckingbottom and now its all peace and goodwill with Jack Ross.................these people forget that Hecky had a similar start to Ross and everybody was singing his praises especially after beating Hearts at their place.......then it all went wrong. We have just won at Tynecastle again so hope history doesn't repeat itself and we again take a nose dive...........in which case the forum will be full of......"I told you so" doom and gloom merchants. 

The comment on how much these players cost and earn is also relevant in that if they don't appear to be giving their all and play badly gets the fans annoyed as they can only dream of being on the wages their players are on........especially in the Premier League now. Football is now a results driven industry and fans get uneasy when things are not going for their team which is especially true of a giant of a club like Villa. This is not made any easier when you see clubs like Wolves and Leicester doing so well. Unfortunately history doesn't give any club a right to be at the top and if you look down all the Leagues , even non league,  there are clubs who not that long ago were at the top and I would regularly see at Villa Park. One of my first games at Villa was against Notts County who are now below non league........again a team with a great history but now are unlikely to see top flight football ever again. 

It is especially hard when you are turned over by clubs who are regarded as lesser teams and on a lower budget than your own eg: Watford yesterday. This again happens now in all leagues and the same will be said up here when we are turned over by Ross, St Mirren etc and dare I say Livingston today.

Money ( especially TV and satellite) has changed the game forever especially in England where clubs bust a gut, and more,  to get to the Holy Grail and money pit that is the Premier League.

Managers and players may come and go amid controversy etc but the one certainty is that Aston Villa Football Club will still be there and it needs your support ........whether vocally at the games or even on social media (at present, not holding my breath there though!) 

Keep the faith ...........and hope for a good transfer window

Edited December 29, 2019 by newhavenhibby