The attitude towards our players

[GodsBarkeep]

I blame the Football Manager games; they're far too easy and lead everyone to think they're an expert (me included)

Clearly Smith just needs to set his pre-match tactical instructions to:

'retain possession'

'keep a clean sheet'

'score some goals'

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I hoped there would be, but doubted it.

Discussed it in the home attendances thread, but we brought back thousands of fans to pack out the ST list who suddenly expect winning, people who didn't go to games in the Championship suddenly decided they wanted a ST. The first few games were fantastic this season, Everton especially, but ther atmosphere has gradually changed to the point that it's thoroughly miserable being at VP again now.

There's absolutely 0 chance we have a ST waiting list next season, it'll be back to low to mid 30s unless something changes massively.

I’m not at all sure I’d blame the new people.

At the away games it’s the same people as it’s always been, no new people get a chance. And to me, many behave like an elite.

If my lad could get a ticket, he’d be excited just to be there, and I suspect that goes for many others.  But of those that do go, many are literally sitting waiting to be entertained. And are all to ready to quickly begin negative diatribes.

Honestly in recent away games it’s like being sat in an old folks home for people who hate football, and resent being there.

Sadly the concept of “ I’m a loyal follower, I’ve paid my money, I’m entitled to shout criticism and abuse”  is prevalent.

It won’t affect me now as I’ve stopped as of Watford, but if I were still going I’d be asking the club to do away with the games requirement ( even though it would affect me) and open it all up. It just might mean those who go treat it as something to enjoy.

As for at home, I’m in the Upper Holte. That’s not got many new people, so the drop off in atmosphere can only really be attributed to the age old cliche. We sing when we are winning. Or, more accurately, we sing when whatever our current expectations are, are being met or exceeded.

Ive always preferred the idea we sing longer and louder the tougher it gets. I’m not sure that's in vogue much these days.

[Stratvillan]

11 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Were you at Watford ?

No.

I haven't seen it at any of the home games this season. I think theres a big difference between 3k showing discontent and 38k. 

I also think theres a difference between toxic and anger. This toxic atmosphere gets trotted out a lot to criticise our own fans. The end of Lerner and Bruce's last days were toxic, any anger at the moment is simply that.

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, AV82 said:

I'm starting to think our shit attitude/atmosphere is more than half of the problem.
 

I understand the sentiment but don’t agree - despite my observations here.

The fans are not the problem when players don’t give 100%, or if tactics are wrong, or if we are just not of decent quality.So I don’t think it’s fair to say more than half the problem.

But....if 5% is the difference between getting a result..then that atmosphere becomes the straw that breaks the camels back.

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, Stratvillan said:

No.

I haven't seen it at any of the home games this season. I think theres a big difference between 3k showing discontent and 38k. 

I also think theres a difference between toxic and anger. This toxic atmosphere gets trotted out a lot to criticise our own fans. The end of Lerner and Bruce's last days were toxic, any anger at the moment is simply that.

Ok. Watford Second half was toxic, or at the least, very very unpleasant.

Agree at Home its more of a slowly developing silence/ air of dissatisfaction....but it’s going that way.

Agree also re Lerner and Bruce....(although eh were actually still chanting for Bruce in that Preston game !)..it’s more the direction of travel than that we’ve arrived there, and the rapidity. The hostility to Lerner developed over a long time, the hostility to Smith - who has actually brought us more success than anyone in over 20 years - is light speed by comparison.

[AV82]

Just now, terrytini said:

I understand the sentiment but don’t agree - despite my observations here.

The fans are not the problem when players don’t give 100%, or if tactics are wrong, or if we are just not of decent quality.So I don’t think it’s fair to say more than half the problem.

But....if 5% is the difference between getting a result..then that atmosphere becomes the straw that breaks the camels back.

Fair point but I stand by it being a big problem, particularly when you factor in that we're a young, inexperienced team missing key players.

The spine of our team has been cut out by injury and loans expiring: Tuanzebe, Mings, McGinn, Tammy and even Grealish to an extent (when isolated out on the left) are all missing and jeers from the crowd will quickly kill any confidence.

Heads are dropping far too quickly and I think, in part, the crowd is to blame.

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, AV82 said:

Fair point but I stand by it being a big problem, particularly when you factor in that we're a young, inexperienced team missing key players.

The spine of our team has been cut out by injury and loans expiring: Tuanzebe, Mings, McGinn, Tammy and even Grealish to an extent (when isolated out on the left) are all missing and jeers from the crowd will quickly kill any confidence.

Heads are dropping far too quickly and I think, in part, the crowd is to blame.

Yes.

I know for sure, I wouldn’t want to play in front of it. I could take hostility all day long from the opposition, but when I watched our players walk over on Saturday to be shouted/ told stuff I can’t repeat on here....nah. Anyone who says that doesn’t affect players is either a fool, or is covering a guilty conscience.

 

[AV82]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yes.

I know for sure, I wouldn’t want to play in front of it. I could take hostility all day long from the opposition, but when I watched our players walk over on Saturday to be shouted/ told stuff I can’t repeat on here....nah. Anyone who says that doesn’t affect players is either a fool, or is covering a guilty conscience.

Absolutely. However as you rightly mentioned if the players aren't working hard it's difficult to expect the crowd to react positively when we're in a dog fight.

It's a tough situation and I hope Smith has the answer.

[danceoftheshamen]

I can only speak for myself here but the problem as i see it when attending games at Villa Park (I am a ST holder in Lower Holte) is that you can see when the players are not focused properly which coupled with maybe lacking some of the required quality is always going to cost us. It has happened far too often in home matches this season. That is unacceptable in my view and will inevitably result in grumbles in the stands as the least a team needs in the Premier League is 100% commitment especially if that team lacks a little quality too!

Weirdly against Liverpool we were much better (maybe some perform better in the big games for the cameras? Think Old Trafford / Emirates etc both of which we should have won) So i do now go along questioning the commitment of the players. This has been exacerbated with the loss of Mings & McGinn who were the passion & Leadership of this team aside from Grealish.

Even DS said after the Watford disgrace that they were more committed than us and someone posted that story about Neil Taylor & The Sheff Utd coach indicating a section of the dressing room was not committed enough too. Fans will pick up on this at games!

After paying for two season tickets yes i expect better and feel quite disgusted when i see this lack of focus & commitment. That really gets my goat. If we play hard & lose with 100% effort as against Liverpool then so be it, it will happen, but if i sense a lack of effort? No i will not be impressed and this will affect the atmosphere ... which it is starting to do sadly.. that is the players fault nothing more.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Agree.

For example your point about “ allez” is a good one. It IS overdone, true, but the half arsed ness of it is almost embarrassing. 
 

Just a few months ago - when we were winning - we even had the old codgers in the Trinity joining in....now, silence.

Our much hyped fan base is recognised as being a great benefit to the team when it gets behind them. The converse is true.

Cue...

” oh don’t blame the fans/ give us something to cheer/we pay our money we are entitled”........

.....nothing which alters the basic truth, nobody would want to play in front of that.

 

And at Watford it was so bad it became my last away game, finished for good, tickets for Burnley, Fulham Leicester and Brighton will all stay in a drawer.

From the start, little singing, which is bad enough. Far worse though was the amount of people - right form kick off - who were silent at everything we tried unless it went wrong, then were shouting their criticism. 

At the end of the game 20% of us applauded the team, 40% were silent( fair enough after that display) but 40%, many of whom were calling the players to come over, seized their chance to shout abuse. Jack, when he heard it, gave a dismissive “ bol## to you then” gesture and turned on his heels.

That's the trouble with the whole thing about criticism. It starts as a few comments on the net, then it becomes serial complaints, and slowly the overall mood changes, and spreads to the games. Then those who want to remain positive give up, shut up, or stop going.

When we beat Norwich - who finished way ahead of us - at their place, their fans stuck with them throughout. We are - yet again, for the umpteenth time in the last 10 years, at the stage where half our fan base begins games expecting failure and responding accordingly.

I already know how enraged some will be at the very idea that the fans are playing a part in what’s happening. But every single sport from cricket to football to athletics to golf recognises the benefits of a positive crowd and the perils of one that is not so.

I hoped there would be a mood of hope and celebration about this season. I should’ve known better. I - and a couple of others I know - are closer and closer to forgetting the whole thing. Won’t be because we lose football matches, most fans of most teams accept that..but because of the surrounding negative ‘noise’. 

Against Everton after 3 defeats in a row the fans sang Allez non stop for the last 10 minutes. The players responded. Pundits spoke how a massive club is back. 3 months on tickets v Man City are openly available on general sale. Can’t believe how much it’s changed in such a short time. 
 

Nah, we ain’t fickle. 

[Wainy316]

I’ve seen it far far worse than it is at present.  

[delboy54]

Happy New Year to all on VT

I was lucky enough to spend Boxing Day at the Belfry as part of my daughters 27th birthday and a discounted hotel B and B deal (cannot afford it otherwise!)

After getting back from the Villa v Norwich game, daughter and I were having a drink in the bar and in walked Elmohamady in his Villa training kit! an hour later when me and wife and daughter went for the evening meal we  saw him again on his own in the restaurant (still in his training kit!). I did go up to him shake his hand and said "well played" and he said "thank you". I didn't want to disturb him anymore.He was a really friendly guy, he was on his own and I felt quite sorry for him.

I think we sometimes forget that although they get paid tons of money for what they do, underneath they are "normal" people, quite possibly lonely being stuck in hotels etc 

We should "support" and get behind our players more and resist the urge to be negative towards them if they mess up - they are only human. Very easy to spiral into vitriol and "fickleness" in my opinion.

All the best

Derek

[Pimlico_Villa]

Criticism has been entirely legitimate, most of the time, especially when it is motivated by a complete lack of effort. 
 

There are an abundance of Happy Clappers on here that will always be against players receiving criticism, though. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Pimlico_Villa

[Adam2003]

12 hours ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

Criticism has been entirely legitimate, most of the time, especially when it is motivated by a complete lack of effort. 
 

There are an abundance of Happy Clappers on here that will always be against players receiving criticism, though. 

It’s fine for it to be legitimate but that doesn’t change the fact we have a reputation in the game as a fanbase ho will get on their players’ backs and make it easier for the opposition. This is a definite thing that two former Premier League players have told me separately. It’s the last thing the opposition say before they come on the pitch against us - take control of the first 15 mins and this crowd will turn on the team and heads will drop.

Conversely, of course, our management need to recognise this and work hard to dominate that first 15 mins - even if we are then blowing out of our arses later. I wonder if this is why we concede so many late goals.

Anyway, I don’t think there is any way to change it.

[briny_ear]

Going back to the OP, our players in the 90s were generally far better than the ones we have today, with one or two obvious and notable exceptions from the current squad.

That probably goes a long way to explain the greater levels of criticism of our players today.

[Pimlico_Villa]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

It’s fine for it to be legitimate but that doesn’t change the fact we have a reputation in the game as a fanbase ho will get on their players’ backs and make it easier for the opposition. This is a definite thing that two former Premier League players have told me separately. It’s the last thing the opposition say before they come on the pitch against us - take control of the first 15 mins and this crowd will turn on the team and heads will drop.

Conversely, of course, our management need to recognise this and work hard to dominate that first 15 mins - even if we are then blowing out of our arses later. I wonder if this is why we concede so many late goals.

Anyway, I don’t think there is any way to change it.

That’s interesting that you’ve heard it first hand from actual players. I had heard opposition Managers say that in post match interviews. 
 

The other thing that makes me not mind the fans giving players a hard time on occasion, is that without the fans cons  TS a rly reminding the club and players about expectation levels, we would have folded years ago. I suppose, in recent years, there has just been a fundamental mismatch between stature of the club, standards/expectations of the fan base and the actual quality of players on the pitch. 
 

imagine being a Fan that has seen us win Leagues and European trophies to now have to see Neil Taylor or Elmohamady play. 

[lexicon]

50 minutes ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

imagine being a Fan that has seen us win Leagues and European trophies to now have to see Neil Taylor or Elmohamady play. 

**** 'em. They need to get real and start living in the present. If they don't like it, I'd much rather they pissed off completely than took out their lives' insecurities on our players every week and screw up the atmosphere for everyone involved.