abdulaziz1 Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, zab6359 said: Absolutely yes they had two £70m players on the pitch and numerous £40m players. Arsenal are a very good side streets ahead of us, we did bloody well against them. You kinda answer your own question by saying we play better when we're down to 10. Often going down to 10 men makes teams switch on and consolidate as we did against Palace when we scored a perfectly legitimate goal and should have taken a point. We do better when we are down to 10 than when our opponents are 10. But we’re usually bad in both cases. So its not quite answering my questions. Regarding Arsenal, if that was only for this game I’d say yes, as we only gifted them the win. But as I’ve mentioned out of 8-9 games we only won once in these circumstances. Only two of those were at PL, so quality isn’t the main issue for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, KentVillan said: The 10 men thing is just a massive coincidence that it's happened two games running, and now we're looking at it as some kind of problem this team has. The focus should be on how we play football 11 v 11, since that's how the vast majority of our matches will be played start to finish. Yes its a problem, if someone could give us a stat then that would be helpful. And we seem good in winning free kicks which leads for sure to colored cards. We shall definitely learn what to do tactically. Don’t forget the Bournemouth player who should’ve got out, I’m not sure wether Gomez that people were wanting to get a red card. Atleast half of our games should’ve seen a red card for the opponents. Some would argue that Xhaka would’ve got one too. Its not a coincidence, its something which we should use and capitalize. Same goes with awful free kicks and corners. We have Mings, Engels, probably El Ghazi and Wesley too. I think changing the formation is definitely the key for the time being. Our strength is in our defence and midfield. We need to give Jack and John more freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: We do better when we are down to 10 than when our opponents are 10. But we’re usually bad in both cases. So its not quite answering my questions. Regarding Arsenal, if that was only for this game I’d say yes, as we only gifted them the win. But as I’ve mentioned out of 8-9 games we only won once in these circumstances. Only two of those were at PL, so quality isn’t the main issue for sure. I wouldn't worry yourself about it as we won't be playing against 10 men most weekends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) The feeling you get from winning with 10 is amazing. Think the last time we managed this was away at Sunderland years ago, think it was Ashley Young getting a red but Barry scored a penalty to win from behind? edit: completely forgot Rotherham away Edited September 24, 2019 by BleedClaretAndBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I feel the mindset of the players could be a factor too, it shouldn't happen at this level (or any level really) but when an opposing team go down to 10 men, certain players may feel that they don't have to work as hard whilst the team going down to 10 know that they have to dig in that little bit more and just that slight decrease in work-rate can have a big effect, especially against the top teams. That said, and as others have alluded to, I don't think we are patient enough when we are with a man advantage, key to breaking teams down, is to keep the ball moving, retain possession, drag opposition players out of position, tire them out and then hopefully execute some chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) I’d like to think that it is because under Smith we almost over prepare for how we are going to attack teams, doing our research meticulously and then sticking to that approach throughout the game. So, such as in the WHU game, when they went to 10 and brought on an extra defender and set up differently, it meant we didn’t know what to do or how to get at them because that wasn’t what he had prepared for. It’s also maybe why our subs don’t often seem to have an impact. I think if we had more quality in the team, players would have the creativity themselves to react to that sort of situation and figure it out without needing instruction. Instead, we just stick to the script. But that is what puzzled me on Sunday - their sending off was in first half, so we had HT to be given fresh instructions. Bizarre. Maybe, because we seek to play at a high tempo, when opposition goes to 10 then maybe some players think it is time to have a breather. That shouldn’t be the case, though. Edited September 24, 2019 by Pimlico_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said: Yes its a problem, if someone could give us a stat then that would be helpful. You understand that 2 opposition red cards in 6 games is not statistically meaningful in any way? You could equally ask the question: Why do we dip in the second half when we're a goal up? That actually applies to the Spurs, Everton, and Arsenal games. There are so many spurious patterns to be found in such a small sample of games. This is not something we should be worrying about. Improve our play 11 v 11 and our play 11 v 10 will improve as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 Again we almost failed to beat another team that is playing with 10. Although we’ve put much effort and gladly won that. As it seems we are forcing teams to get colored cards regulary. We need to figure out how to break these teams. Brighton surrendered otherwise they’ve had couple of attempts which could’ve caused a lot of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted October 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: Again we almost failed to beat another team that is playing with 10. Although we’ve put much effort and gladly won that. As it seems we are forcing teams to get colored cards regulary. We need to figure out how to break these teams. Brighton surrendered otherwise they’ve had couple of attempts which could’ve caused a lot of problems. Get them down to 9 should be the tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Get them down to 9 should be the tactic. Might be even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 We struggled to break Brighton down because we attacked them too slowly and allowed them to get back into position too easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted October 20, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2019 We were 1-0 down when they went down to 10 men and scored what should have been 3 goals to turn it around. It’s not always going to be pretty but we got the job done. I’m frustrated by winning at Arsenal to then lose to 10 men, and failing to capitalise at 0-0 against West Ham. The Brighton game we did well to turn it around from the toughest position we’ve faced against 10 men. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I thought Brighton were excellent yesterday. We weren't great and snuck a win. If we'd have played like that v Arsenal we'd have won by 2 or 3 goals, fear cost us v them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Tbh, if wed played against an 11 men Brighton team yesterday, I'm fairly sure we would have lost. They were hammering us, the red card a huge turning point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Curse lifted, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 20, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2019 12 hours ago, Villarocker said: We struggled to break Brighton down because we attacked them too slowly and allowed them to get back into position too easily. It was doing my head in how we ran at them down the wings then stopped and played it back everytime allowing them to reset. Only time Trez actually took them on he put a wicked ball across the face of the goal which no one was there for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 You know it's bad when it gets it's own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 we are still really poor at this. There is no urgency when we have the ball, too slow and ponderous. We hit just as many long balls, if not more when we went a man up and even with the man advantage we allowed them to create lots of pretty good scoring opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, sne said: we are still really poor at this. There is no urgency when we have the ball, too slow and ponderous. We hit just as many long balls, if not more when we went a man up and even with the man advantage we allowed them to create lots of pretty good scoring opportunities. If we're playing Hourihane and McGinn as amf's it doesn't really matter if we got a man advantage or not. We will leave ourselves exposed to counter attacks regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Yesterday we were poor vs 11 and then just carried on vs the 10 You could hear deano screaming move and quicker from the sidelines Credit where its due Brighton moved the ball well yesterday and made a really good substitution which pinned guilbert back whereas he was starting to come in to the game more (March) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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