Cameron Archer

[MaVilla]

i think he will be loaned out again next season, or sold in the summer if a very good offer comes in.

[skarroki]

3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

So he didnt do well in the playoffs, he still banged in 11 goals for them to get them there in the first place.  Rather we keep him but another loan is no point so just sell him if Emery doesnt see him as part of his plans. 

I'm leaning towards this too now. There's always a chance of regretting a sale. Brighton might rue selling Gyokeres for £1.2mil especially if they get promoted and he does a job in the Prem. There's always a few you look back on and think "why did we do that" but I think there's enough reason to sell if he's not in our plans now. I don't think this would ever be viewed in the same light as what happened with Gary Cahill anyway.

If we can get what we feel is a fair price for him and insert something like a promotion clause into the deal it's time to let him go. We can always revert to another long loan for him if there's nothing on the table by the time the new season starts. I think Southampton will be looking for strikers, I think if Leeds go down they might want someone to take over from Bamford. 

[Tom13]

5 hours ago, DJBOB said:

I think we all would love an academy product making it with us.

But conversely, we need to keep those expectations temperate. I said the same things in the Iroegbunam and Philogene threads. If they are to make it in the prem - they need to be dominating the championship. JJ would be tearing apart championship teams.

There's a balance between development and deciding when it's best to cash in given their ceiling. What is Archer's ceiling? You'd hope something like Ings.

In the ideal scenario - we make Europe and bring Archer back so he gets plenty of reps in the cup games and even in Europe. He's not going to be better than Watkins in the prem games, but even seeing him in the Villa XI against other competition might be a good final evaluation.

As someone has already said in here (or perhaps the Iroegbunam thread actually) before, 'need to be dominating The Championship' is simply not true. It all depends on circumstances - a team's system/cohesiveness, the coach, the player's confidence, and loads of other stuff. Doesn't mean just because they're not dominating at a young age that they'll never make it in the Prem. Vardy and Kane struggled out on loan didn't they?

Edited May 18, 2023 by Tom13

[DJBOB]

1 minute ago, Tom13 said:

As someone has already said in here before. 'Need to be dominating The Championship is simply not true'. It all depends on circumstances - a team's system/cohesiveness, the coach, the player's confidence, and loads of other stuff. Doesn't mean just because they're not dominating at a young age that they'll never make it in the Prem. Vardy and Kane struggled out on loan didn't they?

Vardy is the exception, not the rule and Kane was taking and scoring free kicks in the prem at 20 (painful memory) and bagged 21 goals when he was 21. 
 

 

[lexicon]

5 hours ago, PaulC said:

So he didnt do well in the playoffs, he still banged in 11 goals for them to get them there in the first place.  Rather we keep him but another loan is no point so just sell him if Emery doesnt see him as part of his plans. 

Kinda suggests that he might not be good enough, don't you think? Playoffs are against the better teams in the league with more pressure and he struggled. Coventry's defence is organised but nothing special, certainly far from premier league standard. 

[Tom13]

48 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Kinda suggests that he might not be good enough, don't you think? Playoffs are against the better teams in the league with more pressure and he struggled. Coventry's defence is organised but nothing special, certainly far from premier league standard. 

So you'd write him off after two playoff games?

[Farlz]

I very much remember Grealish being pretty poor in our second leg and the final. 

Another loan is useless for Archer, keep him around and give him a go. 

[lexicon]

33 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

So you'd write him off after two playoff games?

No - his loans to date. And it's not to say he's a bad player or anything, just don't think he's the requisite quality now. 

[HKP90]

If he comes back here he will obviously be an understudy to Ollie, so the question shouldn't be whether he's a PL starter, but whether he can impact the game as a sub. 

While I really really want Jhon to kick on (and I'm not writing him off by a long measure), I would argue that Archer would have had more impact for us this season in that role than Duran has. For now.

[OutByEaster?]

I think it'll be difficult for him - we're very strongly rumoured to be looking at forward options and with Watkins having impressed the manager, he'll be a big obstacle - personally, I think his stock may never be higher and I'd consider a good offer for him, but if we keep Archer, I think a loan to a promoted Prem club might be a good idea - see if he can hack it at the top table.

 

[duke313]

If we get an offer too good to turn down, we sell.  If we don't we keep him if we are in Europe, if we're not in Europe we loan him again.

[BOF]

 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

2 hours ago, BOF said:

 

Good to see the club bring through good characters too.

[AvonVillain]

The comparison with Jhon Duran is an interesting one because looking at prospects elsewhere whilst ignoring our own is sort of an 'old Villa' thing to do, but I guess in this instance it was more down to timing.

if next season Archer is sent back out on loan to the Championship as we continue to develop a young MLS player this would be an opportunity lost for me. I'd love to see Archer given the opportunities currently afforded to Duran.

[PaulC]

22 hours ago, lexicon said:

Kinda suggests that he might not be good enough, don't you think? Playoffs are against the better teams in the league with more pressure and he struggled. Coventry's defence is organised but nothing special, certainly far from premier league standard. 

He's young he's learning and it's a team game. I wouldn't judge him on his performances in the playoffs 

[thunderball]

21 hours ago, Farlz said:

I very much remember Grealish being pretty poor in our second leg and the final. 

Another loan is useless for Archer, keep him around and give him a go. 

I was going to say exactly this, even Tammy wasn't great in the second half of that promotion season. In fact Tammy was hot at Bristol City then sort of flopped at Swansea, but was generally excellent for us during his next loan.

Loans are difficult, especially at such a young age in unfamiliar environments. I think Archer will generally be regarded as having had an excellent loan period at Middlesborough, and in fact was very unfortunate not to make the Championship team of the season as his stats were better on a per game basis.

I would be inclined to sell with a reasonable buy-back clause in case he blossoms at this level.

Edited May 19, 2023 by thunderball

[lexicon]

35 minutes ago, PaulC said:

He's young he's learning and it's a team game. I wouldn't judge him on his performances in the playoffs 

As I said above, I'm basing it on watching him play in the championship and cross-referencing it with what we know is prem standard football. The gap between the two leagues is massive at the moment. 

[Spoony]

I feel like we are missing something with Archer. He goes out on loan and the fans completely fall in love with him every time. I get that the PL is a big step up but he is clearly too good for the Championship. We need to give this fella a chance. 

[Borofaninpeace]

Hi guys, Boro fan here. First off cheers for Ramsay and Archer. Both made a huge impact on our season. 

As a Boro fan I'd love Archer back next season and in my view (totally unbiased ofc) if we could work out some sort of deal either permanent or loan I think another season with us would be best for him to. Personally I don't feel like he's quite up to the Prem just yet, he has some Prem quality attributes, his finishing and way he makes a yard for himself reminds me a lot of Defoe. He makes very clever runs when he can get in behind and the lad is very technically gifted. 

Onto where I feel he's not quite there yet. His hold up play is pretty poor, first touch with his back to goal he tends to get bullied a bit. He also tends to go missing for large portions of games. In fact not to long ago there was a small minority wanted him rested/dropped for a while as he just wasn't impacting games. Seems a bit mental to say given his goal involvement with us but he goes missing a lot. It works ok for us in the championship when we are having 60-70% of the ball but I think in the prem you would need a lot more from him when he isn't scoring. He's only young and the rest of his play could defo develop into a top striker but I kinda hope for his sake he doesn't either end up 4th choice at you guys or sitting on the bench of a Burnley or Sheff Utd as he really needs to be playing. 

 

[tinker]

1 hour ago, Borofaninpeace said:

Hi guys, Boro fan here. First off cheers for Ramsay and Archer. Both made a huge impact on our season. 

As a Boro fan I'd love Archer back next season and in my view (totally unbiased ofc) if we could work out some sort of deal either permanent or loan I think another season with us would be best for him to. Personally I don't feel like he's quite up to the Prem just yet, he has some Prem quality attributes, his finishing and way he makes a yard for himself reminds me a lot of Defoe. He makes very clever runs when he can get in behind and the lad is very technically gifted. 

Onto where I feel he's not quite there yet. His hold up play is pretty poor, first touch with his back to goal he tends to get bullied a bit. He also tends to go missing for large portions of games. In fact not to long ago there was a small minority wanted him rested/dropped for a while as he just wasn't impacting games. Seems a bit mental to say given his goal involvement with us but he goes missing a lot. It works ok for us in the championship when we are having 60-70% of the ball but I think in the prem you would need a lot more from him when he isn't scoring. He's only young and the rest of his play could defo develop into a top striker but I kinda hope for his sake he doesn't either end up 4th choice at you guys or sitting on the bench of a Burnley or Sheff Utd as he really needs to be playing. 

 

Be a good move for him and you , hopefully it will happen, a loan. Watched him a few times for you and while he's deadly in the box there's not alot more that he offers at the moment, he's not ready. 

 

Pity Ramsey was injured for the playoffs,  he appeared to be the type of player you was missing against Cov. Tbh I think he's got a real good chance of making it at the very top. Would love to see him loaned out again and Carrick seems to be good for our loan players.