Cameron Archer

[bannedfromHandV]

I dunno, £18m seems like good money for a kid who was struggling at Solihull Moors a couple of years ago. Doesn’t mean he won’t go on to be worth way more than that in the future but I think we’ve done reasonably well to get this figure at this point in time.

[mole86]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I dunno, £18m seems like good money for a kid who was struggling at Solihull Moors a couple of years ago. Doesn’t mean he won’t go on to be worth way more than that in the future but I think we’ve done reasonably well to get this figure at this point in time.

Agree with this, I doubt many Villa fans even knew who he was before the Barrow hat trick. He’s clearly come on leaps and bounds but it does look like Championship might be his ceiling, this deal seems like a great way of finding that out

[VillaChris]

It's a really good move for him and one I suspect deep down knew he had to take.

Sheffield United barely have any credible forward options so he'll be starting 30 premier league games no danger. They'll probably pair him with McBurnie when he's fit again and Cam did well at Preston in a partnership upfront.

I'd have liked to have seen him get a serious chance here but ultimately UE has decided Duran is a better backup for Ollie so we must respect that decision given what he's achieved in under a year.

Credit to Cam aswell for what he's done last two years that a premier league club deems him good enough to spend nearly 20m on.

[mikeyp102]

It a good amount of money we are getting for him, I’d say going to Shef Utd though we are unlikely to activate the buy back. They are a very poor side and have a lot of troubles. Can’t see how he’ll excel there. They’ll go down and he won’t score many this yr, then going to championship won’t prove anything. If palace were interested think he’d have been better going there. 

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, kidlewis said:

Yeah, it’s pissed me off he smashed the championship and we could have sold him for a song without giving him a decent run. 
 

his numbers were as good as anyone in the championship. I think only two strikers had a better G/A per minute than him in the last few years and one was Mitrovic when we went mental that one season. 
 

he’s worth more than £18m. That’s nothing really in 2023. 

Believe it is Mitrovic and Taraabt. 

[mikeyjavfc]

I wouldn’t get hung up on the fee. The fee is ‘cheap’ because there will be a buy back clause and this drives the price down. We obviously value the potential to bring him back in the future more than a couple of £m

[Jas10]

These recent sales are so “in our favour”… I like it… so refreshing.

Assuming the buyback is relatively low or comparable to sale fee if they are relegated… a bit more if they stay up and progress…

Nice.

[PaulC]

The thing I don't get about these buy back clauses are surely they can't be set in stone, because if the player doesn't want to return to us or another club comes in offerering higher wages then the player has a choice. 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

The thing I don't get about these buy back clauses are surely they can't be set in stone, because if the player doesn't want to return to us or another club comes in offerering higher wages then the player has a choice. 

This again.

They are set in stone because he's already made the decision to sign the deal. 

[Xela]

9 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

Jacob Ramsey would've been sold under this regime. I understand the buy back thing, but a player growing in stature elsewhere before we essentially admit our hasty error in the first place doesn't feel right. With so many games to play this season, the kids could've run riot in the cups.

I don't respect the way Chelsea or Man City operate to achieve the enormous success the fans and board expect, so I've no desire for us to emulate them. There's more than one way to be successful.

I have the same thoughts. Last nights game would have been ideal for Aaron Ramsey or Archer to take part in. Bring them on at half time. They'd get the full second legs as well, plus other Euro games as well as the League cup. If they do well then they get more Premier League mins. 

Like you say, Jacob Ramsey would have been offloaded. 

I guess this is the price to pay to be a big club. I'm not used to it! 

[StanBalaban]

4 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

100%. Means absolutely everything to fans of any club to nurture, persist and develop local talent. Jack Grealish was once considered a luxury player by many, even seasoned, well respected journalists like Pat Murphy.

Speaking of both journo's and JG, Man City's Champions League win was correctly described as soulless apart from one important factor: Jack Grealish. This is exactly what we are trading in my opinion—the soul of the club.

You're missing the key part. The players are good enough to play at a lower PL, or Championship club, and want to play now. 

We won't be able to offer them regular football any time soon. They're professional footballers - they're not going to sit around waiting when their career can get going at another club. Unai wanted JPB as part of the squad, but he wanted regular game time.

If the growth of AJ, Archer or JPB mirrors that of JJ or Jack, they'll be back in no time. However, Unai wants players that are ready today.

[luckyeddie]

If Archer played for a top Championship club, and Emery / Monchi bid £18m for him, I would be disappointed, therefore I am happy we sell him at this price. He may well fit in another team an score plenty, but he looks lost in this set up. He doesn't have the physical attributes of Watkins or Duran. Our system cannot accommodate a pure goal poacher.

[allani]

12 hours ago, AvonVillain said:

Been away and slightly behind things, + some good points made above, but ultimately I'm disappointed.

Jacob Ramsey would've been sold under this regime. I understand the buy back thing, but a player growing in stature elsewhere before we essentially admit our hasty error in the first place doesn't feel right. With so many games to play this season, the kids could've run riot in the cups.

I don't respect the way Chelsea or Man City operate to achieve the enormous success the fans and board expect, so I've no desire for us to emulate them. There's more than one way to be successful.

Or we could have started with the kids up at Hibs and lost 2-1 and had the prospect of a difficult return leg at Villa Park on Thursday.  I remember all the times we qualified for Europe to just put weaker teams out against so called "weaker" opposition and ended up going out far too early to teams that on paper we could / should have beaten comfortably.  Not to mention all the teams we've been dumped out of the League or FA Cup by lower division teams down the years by not treating them with enough respect and playing kids.  The idea that we could just rock up to Easter Road with our U21 team and smash them is crazy - just look at how mixed our results U21 results are - especially when they play full "mens" teams.  Wednesday was perfect - take a proper team, get an early commanding lead and play out the second half like a training work-out.  Now on Thursday we can afford to start a couple more players who might not start (Donks for example) rather than being in a position where we might have to chase the game a few days before Liverpool. 

Yes we'd probably have sold Jacob to a club like Palace and he would probably have taken about 8 months to adjust to the PL and then started to catch people's eye with the way he was playing.  Then he would have kicked on again and we'd have triggered his buy-back-clause at the point when he was challenging for a first team place.  In the meantime think of all the kids we've kept hanging around the place on loans to L1 or L2 teams that we've then released for nothing and haven't achieved very much.  I really think this new model gives us the best of both options - we're better at getting good fees for players (I wonder how much Davis would have got us if we'd sold him 2 or 3 seasons ago) and still have the option that if they prove themselves in the PL we can bring them back when they are ready for our vastly improved 1st team squad.  Meanwhile the kids in the academy can see a real pathway to a good professional career with a club providing them with excellent training and coaching through the youth set-up and then there being several routes into "proper" football.

So far every approach that the owners try in order to raise revenue gets challenged - increased ticket prices, increased retail prices, bigger sponsorship deals with *****y betting companies, selling academy players, selling Grealish, etc.  The chance of developing a team based on kids making it through the academy is minute - to the point that Man Utd are pretty much the only team to ever achieve it.  The chance of winning the league with a team of cheap buys is equally tiny - to the point that Leicester are pretty much the only example of this happening in any major league in the last 30 years.

Monchi and Emery have had almost as much success between them as we've had as a club in our entire history.  They deserve backing to build a team capable of winning something - unfortunately that means paying the money for better players.  To do that we need to raise more revenue not so that we can compete with Man City and Chelsea by buying £100m players but so that we can be smart and pick up players like Tielemans, Zaniolo, Torres and Diaby that could become £80m+ players.  And please don't use Brighton as a come back - as I have said multiple times they've done very well - but our starting midfield of McGinn, Ramsey, Tielemans, Luiz and Kamara cost significantly less in transfer fees than the "unknown gems" they've signed and then sold.

I am disappointed that Archer is off - but then Duran seems to have moved ahead of him in the pecking list (and has already scored).  If selling him means that we can use the FFP profit to fund a further signing to improved our starting XI - or our match day 16 - then so be it.  I'd love to see us playing good football, sitting at the right end of the table, progressing through the cup rounds and competing in Europe.  If he does well enough to prove that he should be in our first 16 players then we've got a deal whereby we can buy him back but with the added benefit of knowing that he's had an additional 18 / 24 months of scoring regularly at a decent level and developing his all round game.

[PaulC]

Times have changed but it will still rankle if Archer scores 15/20 goals this season for Sheffield United and Watkins gets injured and Duran isn't cutting it.  I understand we have a buyback clause but yet to see how that will pan out. 

 

[StanBalaban]

16 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Times have changed but it will still rankle if Archer scores 15/20 goals this season for Sheffield United and Watkins gets injured and Duran isn't cutting it.  I understand we have a buyback clause but yet to see how that will pan out. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cam doing well at Sheffield United, but I think it would be harsh on JD to compare the two. At Sheffield, Cam will be one of their main men, with a team geared up to play to his strengths. Duran won't be our main man yet, so is really providing relief (KW.gif) to Ollie.

Hopefully both do well, except when Cam is playing against us.

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Times have changed but it will still rankle if Archer scores 15/20 goals this season for Sheffield United and Watkins gets injured and Duran isn't cutting it.  I understand we have a buyback clause but yet to see how that will pan out. 

 

The likelihood of this happening is extremely low.

[Ponky]

2 hours ago, luckyeddie said:

If Archer played for a top Championship club, and Emery / Monchi bid £18m for him, I would be disappointed, therefore I am happy we sell him at this price. He may well fit in another team an score plenty, but he looks lost in this set up. He doesn't have the physical attributes of Watkins or Duran. Our system cannot accommodate a pure goal poacher.

We paid almost twice that for Ollie Watkins when Brentford were in the Championship.

[jimmygreaves]

2 minutes ago, Ponky said:

We paid almost twice that for Ollie Watkins when Brentford were in the Championship.

Watkins was the best player in the division.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Times have changed but it will still rankle if Archer scores 15/20 goals this season for Sheffield United and Watkins gets injured and Duran isn't cutting it.  I understand we have a buyback clause but yet to see how that will pan out. 

 

Do you realise how incredibly unlikely this is?

[luckyeddie]

3 hours ago, Ponky said:

We paid almost twice that for Ollie Watkins when Brentford were in the Championship.

True, but I think if we don't trigger the buy back clause, £18m for Archer will appear a good deal for us, as will the £30m+ we spent on Ollie.