Douglas Luiz

[Laughable Chimp]

I think Luiz's problem is the fact he's really a jack of all trades type but master of none making it difficult to ascribe and specific role to him. Quite frankly, I think he can do a capable job in any of the central midfield roles whether its in a purely DM role like Nakamba, a dynamic midfield role like Mcginn or an attacking midfield role like Barkley. But I don't think he would excel in any of them.

[VillanousOne]

It feels like both he and McGinn want to play an attacking role, but they can't both play that far forward so they seem to take turns and neither seems to like doing the more defensive role.

I don't know if they do paper scissors rock in training to see who gets to play the more attacking role.

Edited April 15, 2021 by VillanousOne

[Sulberto21]

On 13/04/2021 at 20:54, Vive_La_Villa said:

Were we? He was our standout player that season and the only one that did himself some justice along with maybe Ayew.

I agree can’t write either of those players off though. The potential is there. 

Remember a TV game against manure and Neville was very complimentary about Gana and his ability to lead the press from midfield.

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

I don't think he does the defensive midfield role at all, he is a box to box all-rounder at best. Not saying he is not capable of tackling, but he isn't very good at it, or winning balls in the air or winning 50/50s. He is good at interceptions and certainly can cover the back four, but I don't think he is naturally a defensive midfielder. I don't think he plays that role for Brazil either.

He is still young and has undoubted talent but something isn't right at the moment.

Spot on.

[sharkyvilla]

5 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

It feels like both he and McGinn want to play an attacking role, but they can't both play that far forward so they seem to take turns and neither seems to like doing the more defensive role.

I don't know if they do paper scissors rock in training to see who gets to play the more attacking role.

That's possibly because of the problems trying to fill the third central midfielder position.  Those two seem to have to make up for it, if we had a nailed on starting attacking midfielder they might have more defined roles and look better.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

That's possibly because of the problems trying to fill the third central midfielder position.  Those two seem to have to make up for it, if we had a nailed on starting attacking midfielder they might have more defined roles and look better.

You could equally turn that on its head and say, if we had a dominant CDM who controls the midfield with vision and awareness, who has a talent for reading the game like Macca and a passing ability to start attacks.... the attacking midfielders, would be better placed to thrive.

call me old fashioned, i still think you should build from the back....we nearly have, the CDM would be the final piece in that Jigsaw.......I just don't buy in to this theory, that the modern game doesn't need one, and that any "jack of all trades" midfielder can play there, with any success...as an example Declan Rice is a nailed on for the Euro's for obvious reasons, He plays that role well.....it would be great, if we could get one like him.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by TRO

[Zatman]

Luis interview last week with Guardian describes how he plays and what his favourite position and its a traditional Brazilian defensive midfielder called a Volante who links defence to attack

Edited April 15, 2021 by Zatman

[MaVilla]

55 minutes ago, TRO said:

You could equally turn that on its head and say, if we had a dominant CDM who controls the midfield with vision and awareness, who has a talent for reading the game like Macca and a passing ability to start attacks.... the attacking midfielders, would be better placed to thrive.

call me old fashioned, i still think you should build from the back....we nearly have, the CDM would be the final piece in that Jigsaw.......I just don't buy in to this theory, that the modern game doesn't need one, and that any "jack of all trades" midfielder can play there, with any success...as an example Declan Rice is a nailed on for the Euro's for obvious reasons, He plays that role well.....it would be great, if we could get one like him.

 

 

 

 

 

or someone like Soucek.

i quite like us in a 4231, with a Soucek/Rice type in the main DM of the two, and someone like Luiz or Sanson in the second spot, a good balance.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

58 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Luis interview last week with Guardian describes how he plays and what his favourite position and its a traditional Brazilian defensive midfielder called a Volante who links defence to attack

Basically a deep lying playmaker who gets to spray the ball, Ala Pirlo.

The problem is, we don't have the midfield setup ( especially in current form ) to allow him to do this effectively.

He isn't strong enough to battle and make the space himself either IMO in this league.

So that's great on paper and all, but it's currently not working for our reality.

We need a solid unit ahead of him for that to work.

We know he has the vision and range of pass, but the fact is we don't get alot of time on the ball in the PL.

It's why brilliant technical players like Thiago at Liverpool haven't exactly lit it up in the PL either.

Edited April 15, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

or someone like Soucek.

i quite like us in a 4231, with a Soucek/Rice type in the main DM of the two, and someone like Luiz or Sanson in the second spot, a good balance.

Yeah

Its interesting how they have both....I think a top class one would transform our fortunes.

look at England, without Rice or Phillips...Holding.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Basically a deep lying playmaker who gets to spray the ball, Ala Pirlo.

The problem is, we don't have the midfield setup ( especially in current form ) to allow him to do this effectively.

He isn't strong enough to battle and make the space himself either IMO in this league.

So that's. great on paper and all, but it's currently not working for our reality.

We need a solid unit ahead of him for that to work.

We know me has the vision and range of pass, but the fact is we don't get alot of time on the ball in the PL.

It's why brilliant technical players like Thiago at Liverpool haven't exactly lit it up at Liverpool.

Very true.

He also has the comfort of Casemiro alongside him, doing the ugly/ muscley work.

I have also seen quotes from Brazilian fans saying he is not a CDM....but of course, its just opinions.

Edited April 15, 2021 by TRO

[Zatman]

8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Basically a deep lying playmaker who gets to spray the ball, Ala Pirlo.

The problem is, we don't have the midfield setup ( especially in current form ) to allow him to do this effectively.

He isn't strong enough to battle and make the space himself either IMO in this league.

So that's great on paper and all, but it's currently not working for our reality.

We need a solid unit ahead of him for that to work.

We know he has the vision and range of pass, but the fact is we don't get alot of time on the ball in the PL.

It's why brilliant technical players like Thiago at Liverpool haven't exactly lit it up in the PL either.

He also said that he is young and still learning the role so he understands he isnt the finished article in that position 

[rodders0223]

He is a baller surrounded by (without Jack) a lot of water carriers to the side and front of him that can't keep the ball.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

He is a baller surrounded by (without Jack) a lot of water carriers to the side and front of him that can't keep the ball.

Yeah.

But he is lightweight, in that role...and not tall enough to cut out high balls, to protect the back four....neither is McGinn.....they are better deployed further up field.

Edited April 16, 2021 by TRO

[Indigo]

11 hours ago, Zatman said:

Luis interview last week with Guardian describes how he plays and what his favourite position and its a traditional Brazilian defensive midfielder called a Volante who links defence to attack

Yep. Understand some of the criticisms of his capacity to do so successfully in this league, or at least with our current personnel around him, but still and all it is where he plays and I think some folk miss the mark when they say with such certainty that he doesn't play there for Brazil as if he's being played out of position or misused at Villa when it's not really the case.

[QldVilla]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

You could equally turn that on its head and say, if we had a dominant CDM who controls the midfield with vision and awareness, who has a talent for reading the game like Macca and a passing ability to start attacks.... the attacking midfielders, would be better placed to thrive.

call me old fashioned, i still think you should build from the back....we nearly have, the CDM would be the final piece in that Jigsaw.......I just don't buy in to this theory, that the modern game doesn't need one, and that any "jack of all trades" midfielder can play there, with any success...as an example Declan Rice is a nailed on for the Euro's for obvious reasons, He plays that role well.....it would be great, if we could get one like him.

 

 

 

 

 

You only need to see how Casemiro plays for Madrid. He made Fabinho look like a pub footballer on a couple of occasions yesterday and shows what a proper DM can do.

The players are out there, not sure whether Smith wants a proper DM though.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

He also said that he is young and still learning the role so he understands he isnt the finished article in that position 

Fair play, definitely has time on his side, and the quality is obviously there.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Indigo said:

Yep. Understand some of the criticisms of his capacity to do so successfully in this league, or at least with our current personnel around him, but still and all it is where he plays and I think some folk miss the mark when they say with such certainty that he doesn't play there for Brazil as if he's being played out of position or misused at Villa when it's not really the case.

I don't watch Brazil enough to know, but I watch him playing for us and I am confident, its not working.....That is not to say, he is a bad player.....That is not the narrative here.

He is 22 and I could change my opinion, I thought he was a very decent player after Lockdown last season and I saw a distinct improvement in his game, suffice to say, he could have been our best player, in that final run in.....not idea why he has dropped off, his intensity.

I really don't buy in to this theory, that he is always available for a pass, he is, but that is not enough in that role.....That role requires more challenges and a belligerence to stop the opposition, Dougie might be comfortable on the ball, which is great, but for me, he doesn't affect the game enough, he is passive....and where he plays is too far back to be a danger to the opposition.

I accept, we all see the game differently.....but right now there is a groundswell of opinion, leaning towards our midfield being light....there is only 3 players in there, so take your pick.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

You only need to see how Casemiro plays for Madrid. He made Fabinho look like a pub footballer on a couple of occasions yesterday and shows what a proper DM can do.

The players are out there, not sure whether Smith wants a proper DM though.

I think a lot depends on the interpretation of the role.....some think it means a big lump just bashing the ball up field.....That is not what is being proposed by me.....but those are the responses from folk, who don't appreciate the role imo.

I believe the player needs to have physical presence, but accept there are some exceptions....but he also, needs vision. anticipation and awareness of the play....that need to be good passers of the ball and decent in the air and have a natural instinct for winning it an turning the ball over....They need to be thorn in the side of opposing teams.

It may be said its difficult to sign a player with so many attribute demands, but thats just my ideal model......you just try an get as close as you can to it.

I have a suspicion, you are right, I will be amazed if we sign one.....I think Dean thinks Marvellous does that.

Marvellous, is a watered down version of what I want.....not got enough attributes to dominate the role.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by TRO

[QldVilla]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think a lot depends on the interpretation of the role.....some think it means a big lump just bashing the ball up field.....That is not what is being proposed by me.....but those are the responses from folk, who don't appreciate the role imo.

I believe the player needs to have physical presence, but accept there are some exceptions....but he also, needs vision. anticipation and awareness of the play....that need to be good passers of the ball and decent in the air and have a natural instinct for winning it an turning the ball over....They need to be thorn in the side of opposing teams.

It may be said its difficult to sign a player with so many attribute demands, but thats just my ideal model......you just try an get as close as you can to it.

I have a suspicion, you are right, I will be amazed if we sign one.....I think Dean thinks Marvellous does that.

Marvellous, is a watered down version of what I want.....not got enough attributes to dominate the role.

 

I like Merino at Sociedad, believe he would suit that type of role. Has PL experience as was at Newcastle albeit, didn’t look great, but seems to be with anyone who goes to the Toon. 
 

The players are there.