villalad21 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Well they are usually counter attacking to my knowledge. However, from what I know of Deano, he likes to keep the ball and play. The trick is, finding the balance between the two styles. You would hope this improves with time/cohesion and increased quality . I do not want us ever to be a counter attacking team. I want us to be a possession based team. Dominate games. Take charge and take initiative. Of course you counter when the possibility arise, all teams do that. But i don't want that to be our core philosophy in how to win games. Counter attacking teams by nature are set up very negative. They are basically giving the initiative to the opponent and hoping to capitalize on mistakes. Football is a game of opinions but for me we are not currently playing the way i want. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Then that's coaching. Fulham don't have better players than us but they are better at keeping the ball. I wonder how much this is down to bringing in Craig Shakespeare. I'm sure he is good at what he does but his teams has never been known for being possession based. its is too an extent but...ive said this many times...we have too many like for like players who are limited. El Ghahzi..is a winger....just a winger...not an attacking midfielder...so will stay out on the wing and wait......Traore is the same.....chuck in Tez too. Using Leicester as an example...they have Maddison Barnes...Vardy and Tielmens....all Midfielders who can play in all areas of the pitch...but the main thing is they all have movement and play as a unit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Fulham keep the ball well, because they play it safe and have most of their possession in the deeper areas, which is why they don't score many goals. Any team will have high possession stats if they just pass the ball between themselves in their own half and around the halfway line. Even when Fulham get further forward, they hang onto to the ball for too long, was a feature of their play last season as well, and probably cost them automatic promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 The main problem for me is we are not effiecient or hard working enough off the ball, too many times the man on the ball does not have a easy option and particulary with Luiz lately, he seems to think he has more time to make a decision, not just him and teams now know this, close us down sharpish and we either lose possession or choose a more difficult option then we should be. We need a solid 3 infront of Luiz and give Jack carte blanche. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 According to Transfermarkt Fulham's possession stats are only marginally 'better' than ours this season, their average is down as 50.7%, whilst ours is down as 50.1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 07/03/2021 at 18:55, Rightdm00 said: Yes he was a #6. Xabi Alonso was another. Thiago Alcantera and Frankie De Jong are two more who come to mind. A DLP plays just in front of the back line and is always the most defensive of the midfielders on the pitch. His main goal is to gather the ball either by winning it or collecting it from his CBs and open up the attack with pinpoint passing. Not necessarily, certainly not in Pirlo's case, where the most defensively minded midfielder was Gattuso, and often Milan would play with Ambrosini on the other side. So whilst playing in the deepest position, Pirlo was actually the least defensively minded midfielder when these 3 were playing. I'm not implying that this model should be transposed to Villa in 2021, but it is certainly conceivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 23 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Well they are usually counter attacking to my knowledge. However, from what I know of Deano, he likes to keep the ball and play. The trick is, finding the balance between the two styles. You would hope this improves with time/cohesion and increased quality . Exactly this. However he soon got to the stage where he realised we didn’t have the quality to play this way so he changed his approach to stop us from getting relegated. This season Id say we had a really good balance until covid. After that the energy and performances haven’t quite been there for some reason so it’s become more about keeping defensively sound while going through a bad patch. The person I can unfortunately see you replying to (quoted posts don’t apply for the ignore list) would be the first to hound Smith out if the club played a possession based game and it put us in a relegation scrap. (Like Fulham and Brighton). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) On 08/03/2021 at 10:02, villalad21 said: I do not want us ever to be a counter attacking team. I want us to be a possession based team. Dominate games. Take charge and take initiative. Of course you counter when the possibility arise, all teams do that. But i don't want that to be our core philosophy in how to win games. Counter attacking teams by nature are set up very negative. They are basically giving the initiative to the opponent and hoping to capitalize on mistakes. Football is a game of opinions but for me we are not currently playing the way i want. There is nothing wrong with a counter attacking team and sometimes a manager can see that it's needed in the tactics rather than going all guns blazing or controlling the state of play. So long as you can pull wins off, changing things up through games keeps teams guessing, that your not one dimensional. Keep being one thing and teams get used to it and set up for it and nullify you all to easily. Edited March 9, 2021 by Dave-R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I don’t think Doug has been that bad. He just hasn’t been the player we know he can be. So the problem is we are comparing Doug with Doug which is why some people want him dropped. I think he should start against Newcastle. I’d go with the same midfield we played against Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 13:26, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t think Doug has been that bad. He just hasn’t been the player we know he can be. So the problem is we are comparing Doug with Doug which is why some people want him dropped. I think he should start against Newcastle. I’d go with the same midfield we played against Wolves. I think you can say that about all of them.....but not really that good either. I would not be sure which midfielders to choose or leave out, such is their similarity in style and form....I think its an area to strengthen in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Luiz hasnt had a bad season at all. He perhaps hasnt been as good since the covid break. This season is weird anyway. Football will be a lot different when crowds are back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, PaulC said: Luiz hasnt had a bad season at all. He perhaps hasnt been as good since the covid break. This season is weird anyway. Football will be a lot different when crowds are back Yes, he’s just short of a little form right now, and possibly p***ed off he’s not allowed to join up with Brazil due to Covid. He was immense after Project Restart right through to the outbreak at BH. If that hadn’t happened I reckon we’d be 4th or 5th right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 08/03/2021 at 10:02, villalad21 said: I do not want us ever to be a counter attacking team. I want us to be a possession based team. Dominate games. Take charge and take initiative. Of course you counter when the possibility arise, all teams do that. But i don't want that to be our core philosophy in how to win games. Counter attacking teams by nature are set up very negative. They are basically giving the initiative to the opponent and hoping to capitalize on mistakes. Football is a game of opinions but for me we are not currently playing the way i want. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich192 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Awol said: Yes, he’s just short of a little form right now, and possibly p***ed off he’s not allowed to join up with Brazil due to Covid. He was immense after Project Restart right through to the outbreak at BH. If that hadn’t happened I reckon we’d be 4th or 5th right now. I think all South American international matches for later this month were cancelled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 09:32, Vive_La_Villa said: Exactly this. However he soon got to the stage where he realised we didn’t have the quality to play this way so he changed his approach to stop us from getting relegated. This season Id say we had a really good balance until covid. After that the energy and performances haven’t quite been there for some reason so it’s become more about keeping defensively sound while going through a bad patch. The person I can unfortunately see you replying to (quoted posts don’t apply for the ignore list) would be the first to hound Smith out if the club played a possession based game and it put us in a relegation scrap. (Like Fulham and Brighton). as you say, there is a case for both styles. I always believe, if the other team hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt us....but I also see the merit of counter attacking, when the other team has better quality on the ball.....its horses for courses. We give the ball away too easily, to be the side, we all want to be, at present.....despite the huge strides forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TRO said: as you say, there is a case for both styles. I always believe, if the other team hasn't got the ball, they can't hurt us....but I also see the merit of counter attacking, when the other team has better quality on the ball.....its horses for courses. We give the ball away too easily, to be the side, we all want to be, at present.....despite the huge strides forward. I'd argue we've been giving the ball away too cheaply for too long. Going back to before the MON days. That's the next progression for me. Keeping the ball better against the possession based teams. Edited March 12, 2021 by Sulberto21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Sulberto21 said: I'd argue we've been giving the ball away too cheaply for too long. Going back to before the MON days. That's the next progression for me. Keeping the ball better against the possession based teams. Yeah, I would agree with that.....but thats a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 13:26, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t think Doug has been that bad. He just hasn’t been the player we know he can be. So the problem is we are comparing Doug with Doug which is why some people want him dropped. I think he should start against Newcastle. I’d go with the same midfield we played against Wolves. In the man of the match awards on VT he has accumulated 141 votes in 26 games....lies 13th in a league table and has not been nominated as MOTM once, all season. Quote: Luiz shockingly gave the ball away 15 times against Wolves last Friday, with seven of those losses in his own half – his worst statistical showing of the 2020-21 campaign. (Wyscout).....That is a latest quote from the Wolves game does that surprise you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, TRO said: In the man of the match awards on VT he has accumulated 141 votes in 26 games....lies 13th in a league table and has not been nominated as MOTM once, all season. Quote: Luiz shockingly gave the ball away 15 times against Wolves last Friday, with seven of those losses in his own half – his worst statistical showing of the 2020-21 campaign. (Wyscout).....That is a latest quote from the Wolves game does that surprise you? No because he tries passes other players don’t. We did the motm debate to death. With respect I’m not going through that again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, TRO said: In the man of the match awards on VT he has accumulated 141 votes in 26 games....lies 13th in a league table and has not been nominated as MOTM once, all season. Quote: Luiz shockingly gave the ball away 15 times against Wolves last Friday, with seven of those losses in his own half – his worst statistical showing of the 2020-21 campaign. (Wyscout).....That is a latest quote from the Wolves game does that surprise you? I am surprised by that as i thought he played well first but then you consider the lack of options to pass to, as no Grealish, no cash and Traore invisible maybe I shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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