WooJung Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said: And a Deep Lying Playmaker is a DM. He may not be the destroyer everyone is clamoring for on here but he is playing a DM role. Would you say Pirlo was a DM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 We don't need a deep lying playmaker. We need a ballwinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rightdm00 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, WooJung said: Would you say Pirlo was a DM? Yes he was a #6. Xabi Alonso was another. Thiago Alcantera and Frankie De Jong are two more who come to mind. A DLP plays just in front of the back line and is always the most defensive of the midfielders on the pitch. His main goal is to gather the ball either by winning it or collecting it from his CBs and open up the attack with pinpoint passing. That's our Douglas and against teams where we will have the majority of possession he's a must start for me. If we want to improve the DM options then for me we find a better version of Nakamba. Nothing against him, I love his energy and ball winning ability. It's just that his passing and ball retention are not at the level needed for a top half Prem team. Our midfield doesn't have the quality to support a player like Nakamba who only has one Prem level talent. Edited March 7, 2021 by Rightdm00 Forgot a word 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rightdm00 Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, villalad21 said: We don't need a deep lying playmaker. We need a ballwinner. Why do we need to get more defensive? Our problems isn't defending we are second in the Prem in clean sheets. Our issue is scoring goals. Playing someone like Nakamba or better version we acquire in the summer isn't going to help at all with that. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said: Yes he was a #6. Xabi Alonso was another. Thiago Alcantera and Frankie De Jong are two more who come to mind. A DLP plays just in front of the back line is always the most defensive of the midfielders on the pitch. His main goal is to gather the ball either by winning it or collecting it from his CBs and open up the attack with pinpoint passing. That's our Douglas and against teams where we will have the majority of possession he's a must start for me. If we want to improve the DM options then for me we find a better version of Nakamba. Nothing against him, I love his energy and ball winning ability. It's just that his passing and ball retention are not at the level needed for a top half Prem team. Our midfield doesn't have the quality to support a player like Nakamba who only has one Prem level talent. What a sensible post, Luiz keeps the ball moving quicker to and doesn’t buckle under the press resulting in the centre backs being put under pressure, like wise nothing against Nakamba but in an ideal world we would have a DLP x “Destroyer” but we cant sign a Rodri or Fabinho as we don’t have £70m to buy one, Luiz is an intelligent DM and has good positional awareness he has flaws yes but who doesn’t, Modern Dcm’s need to start attacks as well as break them up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said: Why do we need to get more defensive? Our problems isn't defending we are second in the Prem in clean sheets. Our issue is scoring goals. Playing someone like Nakamba or better version we acquire in the summer isn't going to help at all with that. He’s obsessed with the fact Luiz plays alongside Casemiro in the Brazil squad in a slightly further role and is convinced Luiz is a box to box midfielder and can’t grasp the fact that DCM’s need to be able to play football in this day and age. No good wining the ball back and passing it back to the opposition. Oh and I’m sure Luiz does look good in that Brazil squad because well they are Bloody Brazil! Edited March 7, 2021 by gwi1890 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 10 hours ago, villalad21 said: Only reason he played there last game is because Casemiro were unavailable. 2 games before that he played as an 8 No Brazil play with 2 DMs stop making this up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Luiz is a very good young player who is simply bang out of form. He’s “hit the wall”, as a marathon runner might say. Not uncommon in players of his age and experience, I’m sure he’ll bounce back in due course. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 hours ago, WooJung said: Would you say Pirlo was a DM? CM/Deep Lying Playmaker is much closer to how I would describe Luiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Can we all just accept that there are two types of DM and you can play a DLP at DM even at the very highest level, if your 8s are helping out with turning over possession? So much bullshit in this thread. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 10 hours ago, KentVillan said: Can we all just accept that there are two types of DM and you can play a DLP at DM even at the very highest level, if your 8s are helping out with turning over possession? So much bullshit in this thread. Yes and it's a reason that I'd actually like to see Nakamba and Luiz together but with Nakamba as the further forward player just out of interest, similar to how De Rossi was in that Italy team or Gattuso for Milan. I get that Luiz is not Pirlo and Nakamba is not as good as the two players I mentioned but we're talking world cup winners there. Maybe that combo could be good enough for the PL and 6th to 8th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Rightdm00 said: Why do we need to get more defensive? Our problems isn't defending we are second in the Prem in clean sheets. Our issue is scoring goals. Playing someone like Nakamba or better version we acquire in the summer isn't going to help at all with that. We are second in the Prem for clean sheets purely down to the brilliance of Martinez and fantastic last ditch defending. This is a false narrative re: The Midfield. I'd go as far as saying our defense could be even better if the midfield never exposed them to so much pressure. Any other keeper aside from Martinez and I'm almost certain our stats are alot uglier. Pretending as if our Midfield hasn't been a problem, due to the stats behind them is indicative of nothing but a brilliant back four. If the midfield were holding their own, the attackers could also attack more efficiently, instead of having to be flying back to defend after yet another unforced turnover. Our ball retention has been horrendous, even in some of our better performances . The centre is the engine. I mean, I'm pretty sure Burnleys defensive stats are quite good as well, but if you are shite everywhere else it's almost counterproductive. Edited March 8, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Yes and it's a reason that I'd actually like to see Nakamba and Luiz together but with Nakamba as the further forward player just out of interest, similar to how De Rossi was in that Italy team or Gattuso for Milan. I get that Luiz is not Pirlo and Nakamba is not as good as the two players I mentioned but we're talking world cup winners there. Maybe that combo could be good enough for the PL and 6th to 8th place. I've thought about this as well. Essentially, protection for the deep lying playmaker, to be able to have more time to read the game and ' play make '. Having said that, it would be more productive to have someone who could do both the "protecting ' and ' playmaking '? If your protector, needs a protector, I'd suggest he's not an efficient protector. Lol Although , there are obviously variables in there. Edited March 8, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I've thought about this as well. Essentially, protection for the deep lying playmaker, to be able to have more time to read the game and ' play make '. Having said that, it would be more productive to have someone who could do both the "protecting ' and ' playmaking '. If your protector, needs a protector, I'd suggest he's not an efficient protector. Lol Although , there are obviously variables in there. I don't see it as protection for the protector. I see it as a more proactive way of winning the ball. What's better? Having your 8's winning the ball higher up the pitch and initiate attacks from there or having your 6 win the ball in your own half and initiate attacks from there with more opponents in front of him? You then use your more creative 6 to build attacks from situations like goal kicks, free kicks in the defensive third etc. I would suggest that the majority of the top teams prefer the former of winning the ball high up the field and is one of the main reasons why they are the top teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 midfielder defensive a as improved massively injury from back coming Luiz to and season last to back dates defensively improvement our but, well doing is Martinez, form in upturn our with coincided has which with game his to side defensive the added he's season last injury from back came he since But. either qualities defensive of way the in much have don't him of front in those when especially, 'DM' the as midfield our in him have to luxury a of bit a was it and maker-play-lying-deep purely as out started Luiz, all for and once straight record the set Lets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 15 hours ago, Rightdm00 said: Why do we need to get more defensive? Our problems isn't defending we are second in the Prem in clean sheets. Our issue is scoring goals. Playing someone like Nakamba or better version we acquire in the summer isn't going to help at all with that. Because it gives the team far more balance. Nakamba at DM and 2 runners in front of him. Preferably Sanson and Ramsey. What we lack are quality wingers. Or inside forwards i should say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 29 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: We are second in the Prem for clean sheets purely down to the brilliance of Martinez and fantastic last ditch defending. This is a false narrative re: The Midfield. I'd go as far as saying our defense could be even better if the midfield never exposed them to so much pressure. Any other keeper aside from Martinez and I'm almost certain our stats are alot uglier. Pretending as if our Midfield hasn't been a problem, due to the stats behind them is indicative of nothing but a brilliant back four. If the midfield were holding their own, the attackers could also attack more efficiently, instead of having to be flying back to defend after yet another unforced turnover. Our ball retention has been horrendous, even in some of our better performances . The centre is the engine. I mean, I'm pretty sure Burnleys defensive stats are quite good as well, but if you are shite everywhere else it's almost counterproductive. Spot on fella....especially the bold bits. This could go in any thread but the main issue and in a way Luiz is a problem...is the team cannot old its shape and importantly the movement when we have the ball is shocking. I've lost count how many times we get the ball and a player is either surrounded by three or...the nearest player is 40 yards away. We dont move off the ball..players are isolated......I look at other teams.....even wolves sat night....15...20 yard passes....through the middle....we do a couple of 10 yards and its long ball....lose...repeat....can we do it....yes....there were a view time against shef utd....ball on the floor to watkins...nice lay off to Ramsay.....out to traore. To do have a knack of making a pass and in a way admiring it....my work is done kind of thing. As Ive read this morning about Mcginn...Traore....El Ghazi....i think their problem isnt them...well...some is....its the team around them not backing them enough....and Luiz is guilty of that too. The whole team lack basics at the moment...until they are solved...it will be the same every week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: We are second in the Prem for clean sheets purely down to the brilliance of Martinez and fantastic last ditch defending. This is a false narrative re: The Midfield. I'd go as far as saying our defense could be even better if the midfield never exposed them to so much pressure. Any other keeper aside from Martinez and I'm almost certain our stats are alot uglier. Pretending as if our Midfield hasn't been a problem, due to the stats behind them is indicative of nothing but a brilliant back four. If the midfield were holding their own, the attackers could also attack more efficiently, instead of having to be flying back to defend after yet another unforced turnover. Our ball retention has been horrendous, even in some of our better performances . The centre is the engine. I mean, I'm pretty sure Burnleys defensive stats are quite good as well, but if you are shite everywhere else it's almost counterproductive. Warning: I am going to use stats here More Martinez than the last ditch defending actually. He is outperforming his post-shot xG (the measure of how likely a keeper is to save the shot) by 7.7, which is fairly impressive and the best in the league. The midfield is a problem but as I mentioned in my other post I think it is more a ball winning issue further up the field. Re: Burnley, their defensive stats are also pretty dire. Pope is also outperforming the post-shot xG by 5.1. They have the 4th worst xG against but Pope is bailing them out. They have also conceded 6 goals from corners compared to our 2, which is surprising considering they are often cited as a model of how to defend set pieces and some would have you believe our defending of corners is about as strong as a digestive biscuit that has spent too long dipped in a cup of tea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Bazmonkey said: We dont move off the ball..players are isolated......I look at other teams.....even wolves sat night....15...20 yard passes....through the middle....we do a couple of 10 yards and its long ball....lose...repeat....can we do it....yes....t Then that's coaching. Fulham don't have better players than us but they are better at keeping the ball. I wonder how much this is down to bringing in Craig Shakespeare. I'm sure he is good at what he does but his teams has never been known for being possession based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: Then that's coaching. Fulham don't have better players than us but they are better at keeping the ball. I wonder how much this is down to bringing in Craig Shakespeare. I'm sure he is good at what he does but his teams has never been known for being possession based. Well they are usually counter attacking to my knowledge. However, from what I know of Deano, he likes to keep the ball and play. The trick is, finding the balance between the two styles. You would hope this improves with time/cohesion and increased quality . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts