TRO Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It's insane. If a goalkeeper is 5 foot 11 but is playing in the premier league it's because that couple of inches doesn't matter. They've made themselves into a great keeper despite that. If our club was looking at goalkeepers based on height, as opposed to the myriad of other things that make a goalkeeper good, then I'd be livid. If it was height alone so would I......but i don't think that has been suggested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 hours ago, rodders0223 said: 6ft 7 ...and I haven't been impressed with him as a number of shots have gone right underneath him, or low down to the side of him and he does not seem agile or capable of getting down quickly. The Villa Photographer must be a giant then! Plus, the Butland signing is a difficult one, it could go either way - Is he saying "Go away" or pointing out what direction he's going? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 in relation to all this talk about height, it is important relative to all other areas. IE: all things being the same, comparing 2 keepers, for example they have exactly the same agility, shot stopping ability, strength, command of area, all other areas etc etc etc, if one was 6ft, and the other 6ft 5, you would take the 6ft 5 due to the reach advantage. So what im saying is, i agree height isnt the "be all and end all", as there are many other areas to balance it against that create the goalkeepers skill sets, but all being equal, height is a factor, and that factor would always lead to wanting a taller goalkeeper, "all other things being equal". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted June 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2019 Regardless of his height I think Butland has gone backwards since his injury and will be a huge mistake to sign him 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 hours ago, MaVilla said: in relation to all this talk about height, it is important relative to all other areas. IE: all things being the same, comparing 2 keepers, for example they have exactly the same agility, shot stopping ability, strength, command of area, all other areas etc etc etc, if one was 6ft, and the other 6ft 5, you would take the 6ft 5 due to the reach advantage. So what im saying is, i agree height isnt the "be all and end all", as there are many other areas to balance it against that create the goalkeepers skill sets, but all being equal, height is a factor, and that factor would always lead to wanting a taller goalkeeper, "all other things being equal". was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Regardless of his height I think Butland has gone backwards since his injury and will be a huge mistake to sign him A "huge mistake" or just not quite the player people thought he would be 5 years ago? There will be at least 5 worse keepers in the PL than him next season. He'll be better than Forster, Ryan, Hennessey, Dubravka, and whoever ends up in goal for Sheffield Utd, and you can argue about most of the rest. Don't see this as a big risk. Don't think his injury is hampering him now, although it might have delayed his development a bit. Only a huge mistake if we pay well over the odds for him IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2019 12 hours ago, MaVilla said: in relation to all this talk about height, it is important relative to all other areas. IE: all things being the same, comparing 2 keepers, for example they have exactly the same agility, shot stopping ability, strength, command of area, all other areas etc etc etc, if one was 6ft, and the other 6ft 5, you would take the 6ft 5 due to the reach advantage. So what im saying is, i agree height isnt the "be all and end all", as there are many other areas to balance it against that create the goalkeepers skill sets, but all being equal, height is a factor, and that factor would always lead to wanting a taller goalkeeper, "all other things being equal". Totally agree. But when are all other things equal, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2019 Also, isn't Butland like 6 foot 5? So I'm not sure why this is an issue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Zatman said: Regardless of his height I think Butland has gone backwards since his injury and will be a huge mistake to sign him Correct. I don't rate him either. Sooner use the money on Nick Pope or even Johnstone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Totally agree. But when are all other things equal, really? True, then in that scenario you want the best overall goalkeeper in which height is an important factor relative to all the other factors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 13 hours ago, MaVilla said: in relation to all this talk about height, it is important relative to all other areas. IE: all things being the same, comparing 2 keepers, for example they have exactly the same agility, shot stopping ability, strength, command of area, all other areas etc etc etc, if one was 6ft, and the other 6ft 5, you would take the 6ft 5 due to the reach advantage. So what im saying is, i agree height isnt the "be all and end all", as there are many other areas to balance it against that create the goalkeepers skill sets, but all being equal, height is a factor, and that factor would always lead to wanting a taller goalkeeper, "all other things being equal". Yeahhhhhh, but... what if the 6ft 5 keeper had only one arm, refused to play on Saturdays for religious reasons, and was married to a seahorse called Gavin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Thug said: Yeahhhhhh, but... what if the 6ft 5 keeper had only one arm, refused to play on Saturdays for religious reasons, and was married to a seahorse called Gavin? I told you not to sign players from SHA...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MaVilla said: True, then in that scenario you want the best overall goalkeeper in which height is an important factor relative to all the other factors? The way I see it is at this stage in their career a goalkeeper will have already used his height to get to whatever standard he's at. If a shorter goalkeeper has made it to this level then they've obviously made up for their lack of height in other ways. So I doubt height comes into it when teams like us are scouting keepers at this level. I very much doubt the scouts would be saying Goalkeeper A is better than Goalkeeper B, but Goalkeeper B is taller so let's go with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The way I see it is at this stage in their career a goalkeeper will have already used his height to get to whatever standard he's at. If a shorter goalkeeper has made it to this level then they've obviously made up for their lack of height in other ways. So I doubt height comes into it when teams like us are scouting keepers at this level. I very much doubt the scouts would be saying Goalkeeper A is better than Goalkeeper B, but Goalkeeper B is taller so let's go with him. I agree and I really don’t think height is important. You’re either a good keeper or you’re not. I’m pretty tall and I’m really shite in goal. I’d pick a 5’7” keeper over me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Spoony said: I agree and I really don’t think height is important. You’re either a good keeper or you’re not. I’m pretty tall and I’m really shite in goal. I’d pick a 5’7” keeper over me. Yeah. I mean height obviously IS important. It definitely helps. Thibaut Courtois wouldn't be as good if he wasn't so tall. It's a good attribute. But Ederson is 4 or 5 inches shorter and is a better goalkeeper. It's not the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimevalVillan Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Injuries and stats say Butland is worth maybe a little more than half of the quoted price. Top 5 stats in the Championship but little variation from his stats in the prem, where he was a mid-tier GK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Also, isn't Butland like 6 foot 5? So I'm not sure why this is an issue The height thing has come up because people say Steer at 6'2 is too short for the Premier League. Which is bollocks. The problem with Steer is he hasn't proved he has the ability to step up a level, and it's a big risk going into next season with a questionable keeper who can't be replaced until January. I do think we're going to spend a lot more time defending set pieces next season, and extra height will be a useful attribute, but not the be all and end all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: The height thing has come up because people say Steer at 6'2 is too short for the Premier League. Which is bollocks. The problem with Steer is he hasn't proved he has the ability to step up a level, and it's a big risk going into next season with a questionable keeper who can't be replaced until January. I do think we're going to spend a lot more time defending set pieces next season, and extra height will be a useful attribute, but not the be all and end all. This. I'm all for giving Steer a chance, but if we can sign a 26-year old England international we absolutely should because, as shit as it would be for him, Steer might not actually be up to PL standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Zatman said: Regardless of his height I think Butland has gone backwards since his injury and will be a huge mistake to sign him Agree, he’s a decent GK but I don’t think it’s an area we are in urgent need to strengthen, happy with Steer and Kalinic to be given a chance. Also we’ll be paying vastly over the odds because he’s english. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah. I mean height obviously IS important. It definitely helps. Thibaut Courtois wouldn't be as good if he wasn't so tall. It's a good attribute. But Ederson is 4 or 5 inches shorter and is a better goalkeeper. It's not the be all and end all. I remember I was watching Premier league greatest goals once and there was a ridiculous amount of long rangers against Barthez in there. 5.11 is probably a bit too small for a top keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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