Frédéric Guilbert

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Why not?

I think he works hard and is a decent enough defender but is poor going forward and gets caught out of position at the back quite a lot.

[KentVillan]

3 hours ago, Zatman said:

Both could speak Flemish

I doubt that - surely they're talking to each other in English? It's the standard language of the foreign players in quite a few countries. Think in Holland, Belgium, Germany, foreign players will use English as the lingua franca. (But basic international English with an American twang, not the slangy accented English that the homegrown players use here.)

The problem Guilbert has is he played at a French club that was almost entirely French / Francophone. I think Jan Repas was the only non-native French speaker. It could take him another year or so before he really gets to grips with the language.

And then he moves to a club where the management and most of the English players have regional accents (Brummie, Manc, Cockney) that he's never heard before.

I'm convinced that if we survive this season, there will be a huge improvement from a lot of our players, purely through acclimatising to the language and culture, and starting to get a better understanding of what they're being asked to do.

Edited March 5, 2020 by KentVillan

[Enda]

16 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Think in Holland, Belgium, Germany, foreign players will use English as the lingua franca.

Lingua Anglica.

[kurtsimonw]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

I doubt that - surely they're talking to each other in English? It's the standard language of the foreign players in quite a few countries. Think in Holland, Belgium, Germany, foreign players will use English as the lingua franca. (But basic international English with an American twang, not the slangy accented English that the homegrown players use here.)

The problem Guilbert has is he played at a French club that was almost entirely French / Francophone. I think Jan Repas was the only non-native French speaker. It could take him another year or so before he really gets to grips with the language.

And then he moves to a club where the management and most of the English players have regional accents (Brummie, Manc, Cockney) that he's never heard before.

I'm convinced that if we survive this season, there will be a huge improvement from a lot of our players, purely through acclimatising to the language and culture, and starting to get a better understanding of what they're being asked to do.

Exactly. Learning a language isn't easy, it's still a matter of months that he's been here, and very few people to speak in his native language.

Christ, Bale's spent half a career in Madrid and his Spanish is horrific.

[sir_gary_cahill]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think he works hard and is a decent enough defender but is poor going forward and gets caught out of position at the back quite a lot.

He’s notched a couple of goals and assists, his primary job is to defend, he is good at it I think, he seems to play better against the better sides, I think he’s done well

[KentVillan]

On the footballing front, I like him, but he's definitely one of those "loves a tackle" defenders, who sometimes goes to ground unnecessarily or because he's been caught out of position. He is a quality tackler, but I'd like to see him use it a bit more sparingly, instead of seeing it as his key skill.

In terms of build up play, he seems to have got worse as the season has progressed. He actually looked best when Jota was in front of him, I thought. Clearly Jota isn't a starting option, but perhaps a more robust, faster version of Jota would be a good pairing for him.

Returning to the language point - so much of defending is about communication. You look at that Rodri goal and you wonder if Guilbert's English had been better, he might have questioned why he was marking a 6'3 key goal threat on a corner.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, lexicon said:

Why not?
He works his arse off, is good at the overlap, defensively very solid (joint 7th best tackler in the league, number 14 for interceptions) - sure he's not the best passer in the world but he's notched a couple of assists. 

I watch him as carefully as you and he gets caught out of position often as does Targett.....er no, I don't think he is defensively solid and Elmo has to help him out, when he is playing.

Its all opinions mate......I am not a great fan, he might be ok in the championship.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

On the footballing front, I like him, but he's definitely one of those "loves a tackle" defenders, who sometimes goes to ground unnecessarily or because he's been caught out of position. He is a quality tackler, but I'd like to see him use it a bit more sparingly, instead of seeing it as his key skill.

In terms of build up play, he seems to have got worse as the season has progressed. He actually looked best when Jota was in front of him, I thought. Clearly Jota isn't a starting option, but perhaps a more robust, faster version of Jota would be a good pairing for him.

Returning to the language point - so much of defending is about communication. You look at that Rodri goal and you wonder if Guilbert's English had been better, he might have questioned why he was marking a 6'3 key goal threat on a corner.

well, observed....I too think he was better, when he first arrived, but maybe we was as a team.

I think the 2 full backs are Meh.

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

well, observed....I too think he was better, when he first arrived, but maybe we was as a team.

I think the 2 full backs are Meh.

Why do you only think they are ‘meh’? It’s not often I disagree with you

[villalad21]

He's tackling is good.

But i prefer fullbacks who stay on their feet. Have a good positional sense so they won't be forced to make recovery tackles.

To me Elmo should have been our starting right back. I think he would win us more points.

[sir_gary_cahill]

44 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He's tackling is good.

But i prefer fullbacks who stay on their feet. Have a good positional sense so they won't be forced to make recovery tackles.

To me Elmo should have been our starting right back. I think he would win us more points.

I think Guilbert is much better than Elmohamady 

[Zatman]

56 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He's tackling is good.

But i prefer fullbacks who stay on their feet. Have a good positional sense so they won't be forced to make recovery tackles.

To me Elmo should have been our starting right back. I think he would win us more points.

so you now prefer full backs that stay on their feet. before was fullbacks that could attack and before that was fullbacks that could defend, 

flipflopping a lot as usual, must be tough for a Fulham fan to watch a good full back since Sascha Riether

[Adam2003]

5 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Returning to the language point - so much of defending is about communication. You look at that Rodri goal and you wonder if Guilbert's English had been better, he might have questioned why he was marking a 6'3 key goal threat on a corner.

This 100%.

[Tom13]

5 hours ago, KentVillan said:

On the footballing front, I like him, but he's definitely one of those "loves a tackle" defenders, who sometimes goes to ground unnecessarily or because he's been caught out of position. He is a quality tackler, but I'd like to see him use it a bit more sparingly, instead of seeing it as his key skill.

In terms of build up play, he seems to have got worse as the season has progressed. He actually looked best when Jota was in front of him, I thought. Clearly Jota isn't a starting option, but perhaps a more robust, faster version of Jota would be a good pairing for him.

Returning to the language point - so much of defending is about communication. You look at that Rodri goal and you wonder if Guilbert's English had been better, he might have questioned why he was marking a 6'3 key goal threat on a corner.

Jesus. If Guilbert has been playing in PL 6 months and doesn't know how to gesture/say he wants to pass on a man at a corner, I'd be worried.

[KentVillan]

42 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Jesus. If Guilbert has been playing in PL 6 months and doesn't know how to gesture/say he wants to pass on a man at a corner, I'd be worried.

I meant more having the confidence in English to challenge things and explain his thinking. It’s hard to explain yourself in a foreign language. I imagine he was following instructions when marking Rodri - but the instructions needed changing, and a more confident, experienced player might have called it on the pitch.

I vaguely recall that we’ve often left the oppo’s most dangerous aerial threat marked by one of our smaller players (Luiz springs to mind, but can’t remember who he was marking). Perhaps the thinking is that the man marker is just there to block and harass his man, and the aerial challenge will come from one of the zonal players but it didn’t work on Sunday.

I just think a lot of this stuff is (a) bad preparation by the coaches but also (b) not enough game intelligence from the players themselves. Games aren’t 100% predictable and players need to step up and make decisions sometimes. Being able to talk fluently among themselves is part of that, and Guilbert is obviously struggling a bit (understandably).

[TRO]

17 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Why do you only think they are ‘meh’? It’s not often I disagree with you

because they are often caught out of position and that creates a threat.....also they do not cut out enough crosses for me.....but its ok to disagree.

[sir_gary_cahill]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

because they are often caught out of position and that creates a threat.....also they do not cut out enough crosses for me.....but its ok to disagree.

They’re not going to be world beaters, we’re not in a position to spend £50m on a full back like Man City. For what we paid for both full backs, I think they have done well for us

[TRO]

18 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

They’re not going to be world beaters, we’re not in a position to spend £50m on a full back like Man City. For what we paid for both full backs, I think they have done well for us

Enda stevens.

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Enda stevens.

When Stevens was Guilbert's age he had failed at Aston Villa and was playing in League 2. He's done well since and come back up the leagues as part of a good team.

If we swapped Fred for George Baldock the Sheff U RWB, you'd be looking on at Fred with jealousy saying look how aggressive he is going to win the ball, while annoyed at Baldock struggling here because we don't have a midfield.

[sir_gary_cahill]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

Enda stevens.

You think he’s a world beater now? He’s having a good season in a newly promoted side. I’d be amazed if he repeats it next season