Frédéric Guilbert

[tomav84]

Just now, Villan_of_oz said:

Drop Martinez he wasn't to blame for the goals on his own and has literally been one of the best keepers in the world the last 12 months. You want to drop him because the team has had one bad game. 

 

i was being faceicous in my reply to the fella that said cash should be dropped for one poor game...

[Ponky]

I like Guilbert and he deserves a shot but no way Cash is getting dropped after one bad game in which the entire team was out of sorts

[Mr.Messy]

Has this lad got some clause in his contract? Stating he gets a fat payrise for playing a premier league game, would explain his lack of selection. He was signed when we had little to no hope of get promotion.

[Villan_of_oz]

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

i was being faceicous in my reply to the fella that said cash should be dropped for one poor game...

Yeah sorry mate, Ive just edited my response I thought I'd read something different.

[tomav84]

7 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Seems I'm in the minority there.  But the converse view would be that Guilbert had a better end to the season than Cash did, albeit on loan in a weaker league. I make assumptions about his performance in training, but if he puts in a good training shift,  and performs well in the friendly against Liverpool, then where is the incentive for any player to try if he doesnt get to start our next game despite the absolute horror show from Cash.

Admittedly, it was only one game, and you want Cash to prove he can bounce back, but I think I rate Guibert more highly than the average, hence my different view.

i think guilbert has found himself in a bit of 'fan favourite' territory. we like players that show passion and work hard despite obvious failings (i.e. hutton)

but there's 2 assumptions here, 1 is that he performs well in training and another that he did well vs liverpool in a friendly (where we conceded 4 goals) neither of which we are in the know about.

[Laughable Chimp]

28 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i think guilbert has found himself in a bit of 'fan favourite' territory. we like players that show passion and work hard despite obvious failings (i.e. hutton)

but there's 2 assumptions here, 1 is that he performs well in training and another that he did well vs liverpool in a friendly (where we conceded 4 goals) neither of which we are in the know about.

I'm sorry but what is Guilbert's obvious failings? He has strengths and he has weaknesses(so does Cash) but comparing him to someone like Alan Hutton is doing him a massive disservice.

I can understand people preferring Cash over Guilbert. But for Guilbert to not even make a 9 man bench despite being 1 of only 2 natural right backs in the squad is getting a bit ridiculous now. Last season they had Elmo and sure, people can prefer him as a backup but now even with him gone he can't make the matchday squad. 

Now this would make more sense if Guilbert was a walking disaster but every time I watched he was not. In fact, I still consider him one of the better performers in our squad 2 seasons ago. Last season by all accounts he performed brilliantly at Strasbourg and in March was their player of the month(almost won their February player of the month as well).

I don't know how he's performing in training but at the very least I'm fairly sure he works hard in training. He publicly stated he was willing to fight for his spot, seems like a consummate professional and does not seem to be willing to just sit out and collecting a paycheck. He must be performing horrendously in training for Smith to be justified in keeping him out and I don't think that's what's happening here.

Smith clearly does not rate him at all. I disagree with his opinion on him. Not to the point where he isn't even getting into the matchday squad.

Edit: To put it into context, Neil **** Taylor was still getting into the matchday squads last season and that man was for most of the time was actually a walking disaster. 

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I'm sorry but what is Guilbert's obvious failings? He has strengths and he has weaknesses(so does Cash) but comparing him to someone like Alan Hutton is doing him a massive disservice.

I can understand people preferring Cash over Guilbert. But for Guilbert to not even make a 9 man bench despite being 1 of only 2 natural right backs in the squad is getting a bit ridiculous now. Last season they had Elmo and sure, people can prefer him as a backup but now even with him gone he can't make the matchday squad. 

Now this would make more sense if Guilbert was a walking disaster but every time I watched he was not. In fact, I still consider him one of the better performers in our squad 2 seasons ago. Last season by all accounts he performed brilliantly at Strasbourg and in March was their player of the month(almost won their February player of the month as well).

I don't know how he's performing in training but at the very least I'm fairly sure he works hard in training. He publicly stated he was willing to fight for his spot, seems like a consummate professional and does not seem to be willing to just sit out and collecting a paycheck. He must be performing horrendously in training for Smith to be justified in keeping him out and I don't think that's what's happening here.

Smith clearly does not rate him at all. I disagree with his opinion on him. Not to the point where he isn't even getting into the matchday squad.

Edit: To put it into context, Neil **** Taylor was still getting into the matchday squads last season and that man was for most of the time was actually a walking disaster. 

 

 

if you actually read my post it was in terms of being fan favorite despite having limitations as a player which is why i compared the SITUATION to hutton. hutton wasn't the best, but fans loved him. i believe it to be the same with guilbert. in most attributes that you would want from a RB (speed, crossing, tackling, strength, ball control) it was debatable as to whether elmo was better than guilbert and elmo got the nod from the coaches. we now have tuanzebe and again it's up for debate as to who's the better RB and it seems that axel is more highly favoured than fred.

not sure you saw southampton away in the 19/20 season but that performance absolutely was a disaster. he even admitted on social media his performance was 's**t'. that's one example off the top of my head

taylor was the only other LB we had last season. he got it by default. it's not like he's was preferred over someone else.

[sparrow1988]

10 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

 

if you actually read my post it was in terms of being fan favorite despite having limitations as a player which is why i compared the SITUATION to hutton. hutton wasn't the best, but fans loved him. i believe it to be the same with guilbert. in most attributes that you would want from a RB (speed, crossing, tackling, strength, ball control) it was debatable as to whether elmo was better than guilbert and elmo got the nod from the coaches. we now have tuanzebe and again it's up for debate as to who's the better RB and it seems that axel is more highly favoured than fred.

not sure you saw southampton away in the 19/20 season but that performance absolutely was a disaster. he even admitted on social media his performance was 's**t'. that's one example off the top of my head

taylor was the only other LB we had last season. he got it by default. it's not like he's was preferred over someone else.

IMO, I think that it is for cover. Tuanzebe is preffered on the bench as he covers two positions. Even with 9 on the bench you can't cover every position. Axel covered RB/CB, Hause CB and Young LB. If it came to an injury for Cash then I think that Guilbert would start. Having said that it seems that Smith has never really warmed to Fred so it might actually be that he prefers Axel at RB.

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

IMO, I think that it is for cover. Tuanzebe is preffered on the bench as he covers two positions. Even with 9 on the bench you can't cover every position. Axel covered RB/CB, Hause CB and Young LB. If it came to an injury for Cash then I think that Guilbert would start. Having said that it seems that Smith has never really warmed to Fred so it might actually be that he prefers Axel at RB.

i think when we play barrow we'll see axel RB. i agree all signs point to smith just not warming to fred at all. he played konsa RB over him during project restart. not sure if there's been a bust up?

or maybe some of his social media being less than professional (saying his performance was 's**t'...even though it was, you don't say that) and think another time he responded to a line up where he wasn't in the squad...someone asked on the AVFC official twitter or insta if he was injured and he just replied 'No...'

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

i think when we play barrow we'll see axel RB. i agree all signs point to smith just not warming to fred at all. he played konsa RB over him during project restart. not sure if there's been a bust up?

or maybe some of his social media being less than professional (saying his performance was 's**t'...even though it was, you don't say that) and think another time he responded to a line up where he wasn't in the squad...someone asked on the AVFC official twitter or insta if he was injured and he just replied 'No...'

I think we'll see both of them play against Barrow. Fred at RB (unless he's off) and Axel at CB. I can't see one of the first choice CBs playing. Regarding project restart I think he was looking for solidity and hence Konsa at RB and then eventually played Fred who did well towards the end of the season (can't remember why though, was it because Hause got injured?).

It could be the social media stuff. Who knows? It might just be he's not seen as good enough despite what others think.

[tomav84]

10 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I think we'll see both of them play against Barrow. Fred at RB (unless he's off) and Axel at CB. I can't see one of the first choice CBs playing. Regarding project restart I think he was looking for solidity and hence Konsa at RB and then eventually played Fred who did well towards the end of the season (can't remember why though, was it because Hause got injured?).

It could be the social media stuff. Who knows? It might just be he's not seen as good enough despite what others think.

elmo got injured v arsenal (i think) hause wouldn't be RB anyway so guilbert got the job

[VillanousOne]

My biggest issue with the way we play is it relies heavily on our left and right backs playing as wing backs and overlapping and getting in crosses.

Targett had a great understanding with 'some wide boy who left' and needs to develop the same relationship with the new boys

But Cash often fails to take the ball forward very far, often passing backwards or sideways.

he certainly has zero synergy with Anwar on the right and sometimes he works ok with Traore but i don't think he overlaps enough.

Guilbert was better at this, but was often reckless with his tackles and his passing could be poor, but his pace and attacking prowess were often good.

I don't think Guilbert is better than Cash but I think Cash needs to offer more going forward.

The less players play the better they get sometimes, but I did think Guilbert was worth a second chance as back up, but Dean clearly doesn't.


 

[Taxahunter]

2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

My biggest issue with the way we play is it relies heavily on our left and right backs playing as wing backs and overlapping and getting in crosses.

Targett had a great understanding with 'some wide boy who left' and needs to develop the same relationship with the new boys

But Cash often fails to take the ball forward very far, often passing backwards or sideways.

he certainly has zero synergy with Anwar on the right and sometimes he works ok with Traore but i don't think he overlaps enough.

Guilbert was better at this, but was often reckless with his tackles and his passing could be poor, but his pace and attacking prowess were often good.

I don't think Guilbert is better than Cash but I think Cash needs to offer more going forward.

The less players play the better they get sometimes, but I did think Guilbert was worth a second chance as back up, but Dean clearly doesn't.


 

So a bit like Cash then? 

[Rolta]

18 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

My biggest issue with the way we play is it relies heavily on our left and right backs playing as wing backs and overlapping and getting in crosses.

Targett had a great understanding with 'some wide boy who left' and needs to develop the same relationship with the new boys

But Cash often fails to take the ball forward very far, often passing backwards or sideways.

he certainly has zero synergy with Anwar on the right and sometimes he works ok with Traore but i don't think he overlaps enough.

Guilbert was better at this, but was often reckless with his tackles and his passing could be poor, but his pace and attacking prowess were often good.

I don't think Guilbert is better than Cash but I think Cash needs to offer more going forward.

The less players play the better they get sometimes, but I did think Guilbert was worth a second chance as back up, but Dean clearly doesn't.


 

I always interpreted this as a result of tactics, that we were set up to mainly attack on the left through that shitty youth player who just left.

[VillanousOne]

24 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

So a bit like Cash then? 

lolz ha ha, yeah they are similar, I think Cash most of the time has a better footballing brain but he can also be a bit rash

[the_eristic]

1 minute ago, Taxahunter said:

So a bit like Cash then? 

If you look at their numbers respective to their single PL seasons, they're remarkably close. Cash a little better at passing, Freddie a little better at pressing, getting forward, etc, but overall incredibly similar. However, Freddie put up those numbers in ~330 minutes fewer and in an exponentially worse, unsettled team. Then, he went on loan to a bottom half side in France and smashed it. At one point, he was statistically the best performing defender in Ligue 1 (and has topped the tables in Europe's top 5 leagues for things like interceptions and tackles more than once in the past, which is presumably why we bought him). I'd love to see him get a chance in this (...hopefully still...) much improved side, think he might surprise people.

[VillanousOne]

29 minutes ago, the_eristic said:

If you look at their numbers respective to their single PL seasons, they're remarkably close. Cash a little better at passing, Freddie a little better at pressing, getting forward, etc, but overall incredibly similar. However, Freddie put up those numbers in ~330 minutes fewer and in an exponentially worse, unsettled team. Then, he went on loan to a bottom half side in France and smashed it. At one point, he was statistically the best performing defender in Ligue 1 (and has topped the tables in Europe's top 5 leagues for things like interceptions and tackles more than once in the past, which is presumably why we bought him). I'd love to see him get a chance in this (...hopefully still...) much improved side, think he might surprise people.

but Dean keeps trying to flog him to other clubs over and over, he only went on loan as we couldn't sell him

Edited August 17, 2021 by VillanousOne

[Dave_jW]

Just now, VillanousOne said:

but Dean keeps trying to flog him to other clubs over and over, he only went on loan as we couldn't sell him

Has Smith got a problem with players from France? Guilbert not getting a look in, and we have seen very little of Sanson. Are they the next Bjorn Engels?

[the_eristic]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

but Dean keeps trying to flog him to other clubs over and over, he only went on loan as we couldn't sell him

It doesn't make much sense, especially as we only paid, what, 5-6M for him? It's not like he's wrecking our books and we'll be paying a lot more than that for our next RB unless Kessler comes good. He also always seems to be making positive noises about the club and our players publicly, too, so you wouldn't think him unhappy or a troublemaker. I kinda feel like Dean just knew Cash better from the C'ship and decided that's his man.

[Taxahunter]

23 minutes ago, the_eristic said:

If you look at their numbers respective to their single PL seasons, they're remarkably close. Cash a little better at passing, Freddie a little better at pressing, getting forward, etc, but overall incredibly similar. However, Freddie put up those numbers in ~330 minutes fewer and in an exponentially worse, unsettled team. Then, he went on loan to a bottom half side in France and smashed it. At one point, he was statistically the best performing defender in Ligue 1 (and has topped the tables in Europe's top 5 leagues for things like interceptions and tackles more than once in the past, which is presumably why we bought him). I'd love to see him get a chance in this (...hopefully still...) much improved side, think he might surprise people.

I know, I have always been a fan of Guilbert and actually I dont understand why Smith isnt using him