Dean Smith

[MaVilla]

18 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That run had nothing to do with Smith's in game management but all about players hitting form.

when the team plays well and goes on a 10 match winning run, its all the players and nothing to do with the manager.

When the team plays poorly in a few games in the Prem, its the manager who is out of his depth.

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

when the team plays well and goes on a 10 match winning run, its all the players and nothing to do with the manager.

When the team plays poorly in a few games in the Prem, its the manager who is out of his depth.

Pal. We are discussing in game management.

Him setting up the team and system pre game and the team winning 10 in a row has nothing do do with in game management.

No one is saying Smith out but he has to learn how to manage games better.

[handsworthlion]

23 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That run had nothing to do with Smith's in game management but all about players hitting form.

Rotherham away says hi...

[villalad21]

9 minutes ago, handsworthlion said:

Rotherham away says hi...

Has nothing to do with the West Ham or Arsenal game.

I don't know you lot bring up last season all the time. You can only judge what's in front of you.

His in game management these 2 games has been disappointing and non existent.

[useless]

When you're expecting a plot twist, tbe biggest plot twist of all is that there is no plot twist. Lets see where we are in six games time.

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Pal. We are discussing in game management.

Him setting up the team and system pre game and the team winning 10 in a row has nothing do do with in game management.

No one is saying Smith out but he has to learn how to manage games better.

You understand that players also manage the response to the match context? There's only so much a manager can do during a half, especially with so many new players who are still finding their feet. When he sent the players out, they were 1-0 up and a man up. He then has to react to a really rapidly changing situation that he couldn't possibly brief the players on at half-time. It's on the players sometimes to handle what's happening out there.

One of the big trends in coaching over the last couple of decades is so-called "discovery learning" - i.e. players learning what to do by playing through scenarios, taking responsibility for what happens, analysing the consequences, changing their behaviour, etc. The idea is that just telling a player to do something isn't as effective as that player deciding for himself that that's what needs to be done.

Just as our squad handled the Mings / AEG spat themselves, so Smith wants the players to take responsibility for how they manage situations like this. It will lead to some big mistakes with our young squad, but in the long run it will make these lads a much better unit, and better equipped to handle situations like this in the future.

There's no way Dean Smith is getting sacked any time soon, because he doesn't deserve to be, it wouldn't be a sensible move from the club leadership, and they are sensible people.

[villalad21]

10 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

You understand that players also manage the response to the match context? There's only so much a manager can do during a half, especially with so many new players who are still finding their feet. When he sent the players out, they were 1-0 up and a man up. He then has to react to a really rapidly changing situation that he couldn't possibly brief the players on at half-time. It's on the players sometimes to handle what's happening out there.

One of the big trends in coaching over the last couple of decades is so-called "discovery learning" - i.e. players learning what to do by playing through scenarios, taking responsibility for what happens, analysing the consequences, changing their behaviour, etc. The idea is that just telling a player to do something isn't as effective as that player deciding for himself that that's what needs to be done.

Just as our squad handled the Mings / AEG spat themselves, so Smith wants the players to take responsibility for how they manage situations like this. It will lead to some big mistakes with our young squad, but in the long run it will make these lads a much better unit, and better equipped to handle situations like this in the future.

There's no way Dean Smith is getting sacked any time soon, because he doesn't deserve to be, it wouldn't be a sensible move from the club leadership, and they are sensible people.

There's only so much he can do during a half, problem is he did next to nothing. His 1st sub were Elmo on for Trez which i find strange when he got Jota on the bench, who i think could affect the game more.

And when we were getting dominated and had a tired midfield he didn't make changes until Arsenal went 3-2 up. Again a reactive reaction instead of pro active.

Edited September 24, 2019 by villalad21

[PaulC]

Was it game management or individual errors that cost us the game at Arsenal. Engels needless foul to give the pen away. Mings indecision for the second. The wall being too weak and Heaton not stopping a free kick that was near the center of the goal. You add that too getting the rough end of VAR then I don't see Smith being to blame at all. 

[KentVillan]

39 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

There's only so much he can do during a half, problem is he did next to nothing. His 1st sub were Elmo on for Trez which i find strange when he got Jota on the bench, who i think could affect the game more.

And when we were getting dominated and had a tired midfield he didn't make changes until Arsenal went 3-2 up. Again a reactive reaction instead of pro active.

Wait a minute. If he brought on a defensively lightweight Jota for Trez, everyone would be slamming Smith when Jota lets his runner go - as he has done several times in the games I've seen him play.

The switch from 2-1 up to 3-2 down happens in the space of 5 minutes. How does any manager in the world react to that?

Both of those goals were totally avoidable. This narrative has built up that we invited Arsenal into our net with bad tactics, but we were handling everything reasonably well (in terms of actual shots on target) until we handed them two goals on a plate.

Edited September 24, 2019 by KentVillan

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Wait a minute. If he brought on a defensively lightweight Jota for Trez, everyone would be slamming Smith when Jota lets his runner go - as he has done several times in the games I've seen him play.

The switch from 2-1 up to 3-2 down happens in the space of 5 minutes. How does any manager in the world react to that?

Both of those goals were totally avoidable. This narrative has built up that we invited Arsenal into our net with bad tactics, but we were handling everything reasonably well (in terms of actual shots on target) until we handed them two goals on a plate.

No one would slam him for bringing on Jota for a tired Elmo.

Commentators were even joking about Elmo never beaten Arsenal (14) games. I just thought the sub was strange.

Edited September 24, 2019 by villalad21

[Reivax_Villa]

Interesting points to consider.

Dean Smith needs to be more proactive in terms of game management.

He needs to be able to make changes before something bad happens.

Another point is he said that our running stats are through the roof. But our players are unable to uphold their intensity towards the end of the match.

Many things contribute to being a top coach. Being able to close a team out whilst winning and settling for a 2-1 victory is also one of them.

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Thing is as fans, we really have no idea what his "in game management" was, besides the substitutions. We don't know what he told the players at half-time, what he told the subs before they went on, nor how faithfully the players followed his plan.

The ability of managers to affect matches mid-game is massively overstated. Some of the "great" substitutions and formation changes were just lucky rolls of the dice, or forced on the manager by injury.

It also depends massively on how much quality you have on the bench. Pep Guardiola can bring on players like Gabriel Jesus and Rodri. He has every kind of player at his disposal - playmakers, ballwinners, rapid wingers. Whatever the game calls for he, he can respond.

Nobody has presented a compelling case of why DS bringing on Conor Hourihane, Henri Lansbury or Keinan Davis a bit earlier would have changed this result.

Smith is the reason we were even in a winning position in the first place!

Pepe has already endorsed your comments in his after match interview.....he said as much.

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

That run had nothing to do with Smith's in game management but all about players hitting form.

That is one of the worst posts you have made regarding Smith and has been quite a few 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Pal. We are discussing in game management.

Him setting up the team and system pre game and the team winning 10 in a row has nothing do do with in game management.

No one is saying Smith out but he has to learn how to manage games better.

But that is only evident after wins........he may get all his game management right, but the players let him down,when we lose.......how is that reconciled or established?

I think it is all too easy to blame or praise managers on a game by game basis.....its over a long period they should be appraised.

 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Wait a minute. If he brought on a defensively lightweight Jota for Trez, everyone would be slamming Smith when Jota lets his runner go - as he has done several times in the games I've seen him play.

The switch from 2-1 up to 3-2 down happens in the space of 5 minutes. How does any manager in the world react to that?

Both of those goals were totally avoidable. This narrative has built up that we invited Arsenal into our net with bad tactics, but we were handling everything reasonably well (in terms of actual shots on target) until we handed them two goals on a plate.

Exactly this. 

[Brumstopdogs]

 

 

[KentVillan]

(But our manager is the problem. He's out of his depth. )

Edited September 24, 2019 by KentVillan

[briny_ear]

15 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

 

Shame we weren’t able to hold on to the lead against 10 men for 50 minutes though.

[Brumstopdogs]

3 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Shame we weren’t able to hold on to the lead against 10 men for 50 minutes though.

I don't disagree but when you put it in the context that Arsenal have players like Aubameyang (£56m) and Pepe (£75m) it's not surprising that they have such an attacking threat.

[briny_ear]

3 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

I don't disagree but when you put it in the context that Arsenal have players like Aubameyang (£56m) and Pepe (£75m) it's not surprising that they have such an attacking threat.

Trouble is, “we lost our structure for periods in the second half. First half we were on the front foot and looked solid. It is always going to be a tough game but we will never get a better chance to win.”

(not my words by the way)