Dean Smith

[KenjiOgiwara]

Was funny to read the arsenal forums where they admit we deserved it and Smith's game management lost us all three points. 

Equally funny to read McGinn post match saying the dressingroom where frustrated they fell deep and did everything they shouldn't the second half. At least they are aware of it. 

[ThunderPower_14]

Despite the tactical blunder in the 2nd half, on the bright side, we spent the first half really taking it to Arsenal on their pitch and deserved our lead.

We're still settling in. We need to tidy up at the back and Smith needs to continue to learn as well, but we've had far more troubling losses than that over the past few years.

[villalad21]

We didn't deserved it. They battered us that 2nd half and fully deserved their win.

[Keyblade]

6 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I think I'm still scared by the season we went down. There's currently a couple of similarities, 'players needed to be bedded in', 'scoring against top opposition away from home' (we scored two away at Anfield early on in that season too). Finding it hard not to panic to a point.

I couldn't remember that Liverpool game you were talking about and so I looked it up. Remarkable game where there were 5 goals scored and not a single shot on target from either team

And now I do recall that game, it was the one where Gestede got 2 late consolations. We were never in that game. It's not just the scoring away at the top sides that is encouraging, it's that we looked the better team for large parts of it. First half against Arsenal, we were by far the better team whereas we were really never in that Liverpool game. I also get flashbacks of 15/16 but then I remember, Tim Sherwood isn't our manager.

[Keyblade]

25 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We didn't deserved it. They battered us that 2nd half and fully deserved their win.

Not sure how you got that from this:

"we spent the first half really taking it to Arsenal on their pitch and deserved our lead."

[Czechlad]

It was literally just fatigue that cost us the 3 points. Midfield and wingers became tired. They stopped pressing Arsenal's midfield, and allowed them time and space. Arsenal exploited that and kept us hemmed into our half despite having 10 men. Dean saw this and our inability to hold onto the ball, but he did nothing. For what it is worth, I thought bringing on Elmo was smart, but maybe not for Trez. Guilbert was having trouble on the right since Aubameyang moved out to the left, and Elmo coming on to help was smart. 

BUT, Dean failed to recognize how tired McGinn was. After Ghoundezi was able to coast past McGinn for that shot that hit the post, Dean should have realised that McGinn could no longer press and bring on Conor. Then after Arsenal scored to tie it, Dean had another opportunity to realise our fatigue was costing us the match. Dean continued with his group and it cost us. 

Dean needs to have the balls to sub off our key players. I love McGinn and Jack, but I could see from the 70th min onward, they were spent. They weren't pressing, and they were making silly passes. 

I know our bench isn't amazing, but any of Conor, Luiz, Lansbury, or Jota would likely have saved that match. We needed fresh legs, and we didn't get them until we were losing. 

[Zatman]

Like always with Villa, some people have ridiculously high expectations of what we should be achieving. We came 5th last season in the Championship and we only got into the playoffs through an incredible run of form

[MarkLillis]

I can think of one game this year where we have actually "got lucky".

The Everton match was very even and could, if they had taken their chances ended up the other way.

However our other results could easily have been more positive. There is a lot to be thankful for here we are in the Premier League, we have a squad full of good young up and coming players and a good (youngish) up and coming manager.

Yes yesterday is disappointing and to an extent hard to take. But this time last year we lost at home to Sheff Wednesday and this was soon followed by the awful Preston match and cabbage gate.

If someone had told me then that in a years time ill be disappointed with a tight defeat at the Arsenal after outplaying them for long periods it would have been hard to believe.

The green shoots of recovery are most definitely there

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

I can think of one game this year where we have actually "got lucky".

The Everton match was very even and could, if they had taken their chances ended up the other way.

However our other results could easily have been more positive. There is a lot to be thankful for here we are in the Premier League, we have a squad full of good young up and coming players and a good (youngish) up and coming manager.

Yes yesterday is disappointing and to an extent hard to take. But this time last year we lost at home to Sheff Wednesday and this was soon followed by the awful Preston match and cabbage gate.

If someone had told me then that in a years time ill be disappointed with a tight defeat at the Arsenal after outplaying them for long periods it would have been hard to believe.

The green shoots of recovery are most definitely there

We should really have around 3-5 more points if we weren't so naive and/or screwed over by incompetent/crooked refs. 1 point from Bournemouth, 1 from Palace and 1/3 here against Arsenal. We'd be sitting comfortably between 7th and 14th right now and hailing Dean Smith for our good start, with our team yet to properly gel. Shows how fine the margins are. Good news is, we're only 6 games in.

[Lerner's Driver]

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Like always with Villa, some people have ridiculously high expectations of what we should be achieving. We came 5th last season in the Championship and we only got into the playoffs through an incredible run of form

Got you. So, having massively exceeded expectations, we should now 'get real'. How exactly does that play out in practical terms for the players? 

[Tomaszk]

44 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Like always with Villa, some people have ridiculously high expectations of what we should be achieving. We came 5th last season in the Championship and we only got into the playoffs through an incredible run of form

What are you saying here?

It's not OK to be disappointed with losing to 10 men having been 1-0 up when they got the red? 

We should have beaten them, they weren't and aren't great at all.

We should have beaten West Ham and did enough to earn points v Bournemouth and Palace for me.

And yet we're here on 4 points in the relegation zone.

[A'Villan]

Shortlists and contingency plans for Smith's position will be a point of discussion for our board, and will be an ongoing process of evaluation, as long as it interests them.

Mourinho, Allegri, Blanc and Wenger are some of the names who are awaiting their next project. Should Smith be fired I would imagine that our ambitious owners are just that.

People are asking how long will he be safe? I don't know the answer. I would like to think, and I imagine it's probable, that right now he is in no immediate danger of being fired.

I can only go by what Edens was like with the Bucks, which is not a safe comparison to be making, despite there being some common-themes and parallels.

At the Bucks Edens employed a coach who after one season in charge was influential in turning the club from an all-time low to within distance of the penultimate goal.

That coach had come in third in the coach of the year award for the NBA in his first year and in that first season took the Bucks win rate and nearly tripled it over 82 games.

This coach was unable to continue the Bucks trajectory to the top, and after  3 and a half years Edens decided he was not the man to make them champions.

The Bucks went on to appoint a coach who had achieved notable success in his first role as head coach, and who had previously been an understudy to one of the all-time greats.

I guess you can see the parallels in that Villa were underachieving and had suffered some all-time lows en route to the Championship, with no immediate signs of a resurgence.

In comes Smith and in just over half a year, within the same season of his appointment, we are back in the Premier League, after going on an amazing run of all important wins.

What happens from here, who knows really? it's been a competitive start to this campaign and I would imagine our owners are watching with more than just the end score in mind.

Things are still in their infancy. Games played, playing personnel coming together to gel and form chemistry, Smith developing strategy and tactics to cope with a new league etc.

Let's not get downhearted just yet guys. I know it's disappointing to lose from a winning position, but I think it's also important to acknowledge this..

We were 10 minutes off beating two of the best teams in Europe twice already this season, against Spurs and Arsenal. For a newly promoted and assembled team..

It's your call as a supporter but me personally, I think that's pretty bloody encouraging!

Then you add the win against Everton, a draw against good competition in West Ham, what should have been a win against Bournemouth.

The only performance that I'd say was poor and the result that came with that fully deserved was against Crystal Palace.

I'd actually go as far to say that, right now, the best thing you can do for the club is show Smith and his team all the support you can muster.

Edited September 23, 2019 by A'Villan

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

What are you saying here?

It's not OK to be disappointed with losing to 10 men having been 1-0 up when they got the red? 

We should have beaten them, they weren't and aren't great at all.

We should have beaten West Ham and did enough to earn points v Bournemouth and Palace for me.

And yet we're here on 4 points in the relegation zone.

Its OK to be disappointed but I have seen people post that all our games we should have got points from as if we are on the same level as some of these teams

The only team I expected us to get points from was Palace, Everton and maybe Bournemouth

[Tomaszk]

Just now, Zatman said:

Its OK to be disappointed but I have seen people post that all our games we should have got points from as if we are on the same level as some of these teams

The only team I expected us to get points from was Palace, Everton and maybe Bournemouth

Well if going in people are expecting points from Spurs and Arsenal away, yes that's silly. But bearing in mind performances and how the games played out, we could have got 6 or 4, we definitely should have 3 and we've got chuff all.

Over the next three we've just got to get 5 absolute minimum. We can't keep giving up available points.

[cheltenham_villa]

Confused by some of Smith's comments. He indicates he wanted us to push on and get a third but the players dropped deep. Suggests its not his in game management, more the players not executing his wishes.

[cheltenham_villa]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Well if going in people are expecting points from Spurs and Arsenal away, yes that's silly. But bearing in mind performances and how the games played out, we could have got 6 or 4, we definitely should have 3 and we've got chuff all.

Over the next three we've just got to get 5 absolute minimum. We can't keep giving up available points.

Agreed, target for the next 3 has to be 5-7 points. 

[useless]

All our games apart from Tottenham have been winnable. If we'd have won any of the others absolutely no one would be calling the win an upset, or even a shock.

Edited September 23, 2019 by useless
Beating Arsenal would have been a shock going into the game, but not in hindsight given the in game circumstances.

[AVTuco]

6 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Even if we get relegated we should keep Smith and keep building. I'm my opinion.

Hell no.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, useless said:

If we carry on like we are he'll lose his job whether people like it or not. Our owners won't be thinking that he'll be the perfect manager to bring us back up, they'll want someone to salvage this season, they brought us with the Premier league in mind and beyond.

£140 million is actually an albatross around your neck when you are losing........when you are winning its ignored.

sad, but that's how it works.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Czechlad said:

It was literally just fatigue that cost us the 3 points. Midfield and wingers became tired. They stopped pressing Arsenal's midfield, and allowed them time and space. Arsenal exploited that and kept us hemmed into our half despite having 10 men. Dean saw this and our inability to hold onto the ball, but he did nothing. For what it is worth, I thought bringing on Elmo was smart, but maybe not for Trez. Guilbert was having trouble on the right since Aubameyang moved out to the left, and Elmo coming on to help was smart. 

BUT, Dean failed to recognize how tired McGinn was. After Ghoundezi was able to coast past McGinn for that shot that hit the post, Dean should have realised that McGinn could no longer press and bring on Conor. Then after Arsenal scored to tie it, Dean had another opportunity to realise our fatigue was costing us the match. Dean continued with his group and it cost us. 

Dean needs to have the balls to sub off our key players. I love McGinn and Jack, but I could see from the 70th min onward, they were spent. They weren't pressing, and they were making silly passes. 

I know our bench isn't amazing, but any of Conor, Luiz, Lansbury, or Jota would likely have saved that match. We needed fresh legs, and we didn't get them until we were losing. 

I read somewhere "Elmo came on to shore things up".....I am not being unkind, but if Elmo is to shore things up, we need more players with combative skills.

Elmo is more of a winger than a full back and closing down and combative play is not his forte.

However, I think you are right about Jack and John......for me we need a formidable DM who can do a bit of both......right now, its too much for Marvelous and Douglas on their own.

However, I also thought that Despite Mings error, Taylor went to sleep and Callum Chambers was just simply more alert.....maybe it was tiredness, who knows.