Dean Smith

[avfc1982am]

33 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Very good post which I agree with except for the part about MON. I really don’t think MON ever understood Aston Villa, in fact I think his only interest was and still is only ever himself. The timing of his departure was I believe to cause the maximum damage to Randy Lerner, he didn’t for a moment consider the damage it would do to us because he only ever cared about MON. A selfish and self obsessed little man who has been found out time and time again. He thought he was the next Brian Clough, but the reality was he wasn’t fit to lace Cloughie’s drinks. 

Ha....Please don't misdirect my meaning. I should've clarified but didn't want to base a post about MON. What I meant was in the football we played not his personality or whether he gave a shit about the club. 

FWIW we have had a few managers down the Villa who were in ways self centred and stubborn. One or two of them have been deemed legends in the years that have passed. Also find me a manager that doesn't think they're the new version or better than their elite predecessors. Or a player who doesn't think their the new Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona or whoever. It's human nature to have templates of inspiration or aspiration for all of us. You can't knock someone who worked as closely as he did to Cloughie for using him as a template or teacher especially after the success he'd been part of.

I didn't want to start going off on one about my views on the past as it can be draining so please take my original post as a positive for Deano. Lets not argue or get into talking boring shit about someone that isn't part of the present or what my original comments were about. Peace        

[DaveAV1]

4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Ha....Please don't misdirect my meaning. I should've clarified but didn't want to base a post about MON. What I meant was in the football we played not his personality or whether he gave a shit about the club. 

FWIW we have had a few managers down the Villa who were in ways self centred and stubborn. One or two of them have been deemed legends in the years that have passed. Also find me a manager that doesn't think they're the new version or better than their elite predecessors. Or a player who doesn't think their the new Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona or whoever. It's human nature to have templates of inspiration or aspiration for all of us. You can't knock someone who worked as closely as he did to Cloughie for using him as a template or teacher especially after the success he'd been part of.

I didn't want to start going off on one about my views on the past as it can be draining so please take my original post as a positive for Deano. Lets not argue or get into talking boring shit about someone that isn't part of the present or what my original comments were about. Peace        

Well I didn’t really think I was arguing, I’m sorry if you took it that I was directing some sort of fire on you. My criticism was entirely aimed at MON. Perhaps I misunderstood your likening to MON with Brian Little, who so far as understanding Aston Villa as a club and what that means to fans and indeed many ex managers and players, couldn’t be further apart. There were some similarities with their counter attacking approach I’d agree. Peace to you too brother. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I've never really understood the phrase "he gets the club". Does it just mean they care a little bit more than managers usually do about its short and long term fate? Because with a few exceptions surely all football clubs are basically the same, because working class football fans are working class football fans? 

[VillaChris]

6 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've never really understood the phrase "he gets the club". Does it just mean they care a little bit more than managers usually do about its short and long term fate? Because with a few exceptions surely all football clubs are basically the same, because working class football fans are working class football fans? 

Well many of our recent managers for a start didn't really realise how big we are until they start managing us, O'Leary and Houllier for two. I believe they were both amazed at how good Bodymoor Heath was for a start and the general set up we had.

In that respect DS would know all this watching us in our glory days of early 80s and mid 90s.

Then you have clubs who are either better playing front foot football or gritty defensive based stuff. Simeone coming in at Atletico Madrid after their years of underachievement and understanding they thrive as underdogs to Real Madrid is probably good example given he played for them in early 200s.

It's not a rule though. Given his top level experience you'd have thought Mourinho would've "got" Man. United more than David Moyes but the league performances were mostly of the same standard.

Edit: I do think MON got us in that he always had good respect for what we we were in early 80s. He stated potential of the club in his opening press conference IIRC. The problem of course was the limited transfer strategy we had in those times and lack of game changing options when plan A wasn't working.

Edited July 13, 2019 by VillaChris

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Well many of our recent managers for a start didn't really realise how big we are until they start managing us, O'Leary and Houllier for two. I believe they were both amazed at how good Bodymoor Heath was for a start and the general set up we had.

In that respect DS would know all this watching us in our glory days of early 80s and mid 90s.

Then you have clubs who are either better playing front foot football or gritty defensive based stuff. Simeone coming in at Atletico Madrid after their years of underachievement and understanding they thrive as underdogs to Real Madrid is probably good example given he played for them in early 200s.

It's not a rule though. Given his top level experience you'd have thought Mourinho would've "got" Man. United more than David Moyes but the league performances were mostly of the same standard.

How much does any of that matter though? In the case of Simeone for example, is that not just a management technique rather than him 'getting' Athletico in particular?

Not realising how big a club is doesn't really make a difference I wouldn't have thought, unless the pressure is too much for them. Which certainly isn't something that can be leveled at O'Neill. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

Maybe certain managers styles fit certain clubs is another way to put it? 

Pep at Barca, Zidane at Real Madrid. Could hardly be more opposite kinds of managers but they just "got" those clubs. or those clubs have a philsophy that got the best of of those managers maybe?

Dean Smith's philosophy of football is what I want at Villa. Maybe thats because he grew up watching the same games we did? I dont know why his way fits what i think of as a Villa playstyle, but he does.

To flip it around though, we know how it feels when a manager does NOT "get" the club.

I have never, ever associated Villa with low block , hope to nick a goal by a lucky strike or a free kick. But thats how we played for quite a while under Mcleish or Lambert. It never felt right. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by ciggiesnbeer

[TRO]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

Very good post which I agree with except for the part about MON. I really don’t think MON ever understood Aston Villa, in fact I think his only interest was and still is only ever himself. The timing of his departure was I believe to cause the maximum damage to Randy Lerner, he didn’t for a moment consider the damage it would do to us because he only ever cared about MON. A selfish and self obsessed little man who has been found out time and time again. He thought he was the next Brian Clough, but the reality was he wasn’t fit to lace Cloughie’s drinks. 

and there lies the whole sorry story of the despicable little man.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've never really understood the phrase "he gets the club". Does it just mean they care a little bit more than managers usually do about its short and long term fate? Because with a few exceptions surely all football clubs are basically the same, because working class football fans are working class football fans? 

I think it means that the manager buys in to the history of the club and sets out a strategy that the fans aspire to.

But you are right Dave, it rarely happens, because managers in the main are recruited purely on past records at other clubs.

We are fortunate we have a man that has secured his dream job and wants to immerse himself in it and build a dynasty.....however we all Know how politics at big football clubs work.....I hope he is allowed to do it.

I think Dean Smith has one extremely valuable asset that many overlook in life that will serve him well in the pursued longevity of his job.......Humility.....It endears you to so many people.

[mjmooney]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think it means that the manager buys in to the history of the club and sets out a strategy that the fans aspire to.

But you are right Dave, it rarely happens, because managers in the main are recruited purely on past records at other clubs.

We are fortunate we have a man that has secured his dream job and wants to immerse himself in it and build a dynasty.....however we all Know how politics at big football clubs work.....I hope he is allowed to do it.

I think Dean Smith has one extremely valuable asset that many overlook in life that will serve him well in the pursued longevity of his job.......Humility.....It endears you to so many people.

Yep. He's the anti-Clough in many ways - no trace of swagger (despite quietly saying that his target next season is 1st - and quite right, too). But clearly an intelligent modern coach. I'd have taken those qualities in any candidate - but the fact that he also happens to be a dyed-in-the-wool Villa fan is the icing on the cake. 

[TRO]

How can we be so lucky to have a Manager and a Captain, so entrenched in the passion of the club?

[Brumerican]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

How can we be so lucky to have a Manager and a Captain, so entrenched in the passion of the club?

By being shit for half a decade.

 

[Only2McInallys]

Not sure about a manager needing to understand the history of the club and what it represents.

Did Clough understand the history of Forest before he was there.Was Wenger following the history of Arsenal ?Both of them created their own history and style.

Smith seems an incredibly likeable person and his playing style is easy on the eye.He is a Villa fan and knows our history .

But at the end of the day he will be judged on results.lf he loses his first 6 games no one will care if he gets us or our history.

To me him being a villa fan is an afterthought.His most important attribute is his ability to get players playing as a team and winning football games.

I expect next season to be really tough for us.We are not used to losing games and getting beaten heavily.Ihope our fans are prepared this this and don’t turn on Smith.

 

[TheStagMan]

I think it is more that a manager who is not a life long fan of the club will just see this as a job, and there will come a time when he will just look to bail and take a pay off (not all, but many), or use as a stepping stone to a "bigger club" or better payday. Someone like Dean Smith who is a lifelong fan will fight for the club till his dying breath and not give up or leave for something "better"  (e.g doubtful he would leave us for the likes of say Wolves or Everton - whatever the pay packet was). 

[DaveAV1]

44 minutes ago, Londonastonvilla said:

Not sure about a manager needing to understand the history of the club and what it represents.

Did Clough understand the history of Forest before he was there.Was Wenger following the history of Arsenal ?Both of them created their own history and style.

Smith seems an incredibly likeable person and his playing style is easy on the eye.He is a Villa fan and knows our history .

But at the end of the day he will be judged on results.lf he loses his first 6 games no one will care if he gets us or our history.

To me him being a villa fan is an afterthought.His most important attribute is his ability to get players playing as a team and winning football games.

I expect next season to be really tough for us.We are not used to losing games and getting beaten heavily.Ihope our fans are prepared this this and don’t turn on Smith.

 

You’re right, the manager will always be judged on results at the end of the day,  but having a real affinity with the club is a nice bonus to have. Given that success or failure is often judged by very fine margins, it may just give us a little bit on occasion that brings the results that he will be ultimately defined by. 

[Tomaszk]

Hope those fake quotes start making an appearance again when we start well in the PL. They got funnier the more elaborate they became.

[HKP90]

Don’t really understand the affinity thing. It only really exists in the fanbase as far as I can tell. The main mistake that MON made was to misjudge the fans and play a weakened team in europe. That’s really what did him in, and all that talk of ego, personality etc etc wasn’t much of a problem when we were beating Arsenal and we were fighting up in the champions league places. As someone above said, the only thing that matters is results. End of. 

[HKP90]

13 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Maybe certain managers styles fit certain clubs is another way to put it? 

Pep at Barca, Zidane at Real Madrid. Could hardly be more opposite kinds of managers but they just "got" those clubs. or those clubs have a philsophy that got the best of of those managers maybe?

Dean Smith's philosophy of football is what I want at Villa. Maybe thats because he grew up watching the same games we did? I dont know why his way fits what i think of as a Villa playstyle, but he does.

To flip it around though, we know how it feels when a manager does NOT "get" the club.

I have never, ever associated Villa with low block , hope to nick a goal by a lucky strike or a free kick. But thats how we played for quite a while under Mcleish or Lambert. It never felt right. 

I get where you’re coming from, but how many teams have fan bases that say ‘defensive football, wasting time, kicking the opponents in the nuts when the refs not looking, long speculative balls over the top to a clod-hopping journeyman, thats what we’re about. That’s the **** FC way’. 

Except Wimbledon, obviously.

All fans think that there is a historical imperative at their club to play the best football ‘the world has ever seen’.

 

[DaveAV1]

10 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Don’t really understand the affinity thing. It only really exists in the fanbase as far as I can tell. The main mistake that MON made was to misjudge the fans and play a weakened team in europe. That’s really what did him in, and all that talk of ego, personality etc etc wasn’t much of a problem when we were beating Arsenal and we were fighting up in the champions league places. As someone above said, the only thing that matters is results. End of. 

I don’t think anyone was that bothered about Europe, providing we kept pushing on in the league and got fourth place. However the next game against Stoke we were 2-0 up and drew 2-2, then it became a thing. If we’d have beaten Stoke and then had another couple of decent results it would have been forgotten. But we didn’t and it wasn’t and so it became a stick to neat him with. I’m not sure it was his ultimate downfall and this isn’t the place to debate it, but it was  probably the beginning of the end. 

[HKP90]

27 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I don’t think anyone was that bothered about Europe, providing we kept pushing on in the league and got fourth place. However the next game against Stoke we were 2-0 up and drew 2-2, then it became a thing. If we’d have beaten Stoke and then had another couple of decent results it would have been forgotten. But we didn’t and it wasn’t and so it became a stick to neat him with. I’m not sure it was his ultimate downfall and this isn’t the place to debate it, but it was  probably the beginning of the end. 

Yeah, not the place. Back on topic all faith in DS, and Given the number of incoming players, which will take time to bed in, I certainly won’t be giving him any stick during the first couple of months of the season, even if things don't go out way. Think we’ll really see the capabilities of the team during the second half of the season.

[Stratvillan]

Think the understanding the club is a valid thing. Not understanding the club in a fan type way, but having an understanding of what the fans expectations are. Hence mon losing the fans after resting a team in the uefa cup. We expected the management to try and win the cup. I think there's a similar thing with Newcastle.  One of the many reasons they hate Ashley is because they don't try and win cups, they concede them. Fans don't mind losing, but when your leaders "throw" the game. That's why I hated oleary, he was happy to lose 2 0 to manure  and not even attempt to win.